Talk:Conspiracy

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Anyone willing to do countersabotage?[edit]

Check out the edit history. The page was so much better before Kalki appeared.

Ikleheimer[edit]

The earliest book I know where the letters appear is J. F. Rutherford's Vindication, Book II, Chapter 6 (1932). Although the letters are supposed to be from 1863, item 17 on the circular cites a case "Mr. Branch against the United States, reported in the 12th. volume of the U.S. Court of Claims Reports, at page 287", which wasn't decided until December 1876 (12 Fed. Cl. 281), thus the circular could not have been written before December 1876. The Supreme Court took up the case in 1879 and affirmed the decision. You can see in Branch v. United States 100 US 673 that the case didn't start until the 1870s. —KHirsch 15:35, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

The date on the letters matches the period that the Sherman Nation Bank Act of 1863 was submitted and passed but there is no date on the circular in the link provided. Is there any information on WHEN the combination of the letters and circular were first distributed?71.174.141.4 14:02, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
Item 15 in the circular states in part "As the banks have a national organization" Indicate that the national banks already exist and have had time to set up an organization when the undated CIRCULAR was written. It could not therefore not have been written in 1863. Again the question becomes "WHEN" was the letter and circular combination first distributed? If the combination was circulated in the 1860's and possibly the 70's there is a problem. There is however no problem with the combination appearing around 1900.71.174.141.4 14:02, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Historical Note[edit]

In Vindication, it says "More than thirty years ago a St. Louis magazine published these letters, and their authenticity has never been disproved." Of course, the gross anachronism mentioned above does disprove their authenticity, but I have wanted to find this earlier source.

I have come across a much more specific reference to this. In The Daily Mining Record, (Denver, CO) Tuesday, June 19, 1894; Issue 142; col B (on InfoTrac's 19th Century U.S. Newspapers), there is an item entitled "The Voice of God" reprinted from National View. It reviews the new publication Vox Populi:

Vox Populi is the name of it and it is a new illustrated paper that hails from St. Louis. One look at the front cover is warranted to kill a gold-bug.
...
The reading matter of the Vox Populi as good as the illustrations. You ought to see the letter of Rothschild Brothers, dated Jun 25, 1863, to Ikleheimer, Morton, and Vandergould, and the reply of July 5. John Sherman will hate to see those letters in print, though nothing but a dollar ever struck through the hide of rhinoceros John. "Uncle Sam," wearing a grown of thorns made of all the monopolies that go to crucify him, is a frightfully significant "cut." We are going to notice Vox Populi more than once, if it keeps on in the style of this number.—National View.

Note: This "Crown of Thorns" illustration, published two years before Bryan's "Cross of Gold" speech, is reproduced on page 332 of Populist Revolt: A History of the Farmers' Alliance and the People's Party by John D. Hicks.

KHirsch 15:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Josiah Stamp[edit]

I haven't found anywhere that Stamp is called the "second richest man" or even being called particularly wealthy except in connection with the quote. He wasn't even in the top five wealthiest Brits to die in 1941. According to the probate records, as recorded in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Stamp was worth £163,548 at his death. There were at least five people ahead of him:

£880,331 Grenfell, Edward Charles
£776,220 Wakefield, Charles Cheers
£509,712 Austin, Herbert
£408,999 Smith, Lancelot Grey Hugh
£234,748 Cadman, John

And, of course, this doesn't include the much larger number of people who lived through the year.

Claiborne Pell[edit]

Source that he was advocate for the treaty:

A U.S.-Soviet Ban on Weather Use for War is Near
New York Times, Jun 24, 1975, pg. 69

"The main American advocate of an agreement banning environmental warfare has been Senator Claiborne Pell, Democrat of Rhode Island. He publicized a secret rain-making program in Indochina during the Vietnam war to increase normal monsoon rainfall and make North Vietnamese movements more difficult.

"Mr. Pell succeeded in July, 1973, in inducing the Senate to vote 82 to 10 in favor of a resolution urging the Administration to seek a treaty banning environmental warfare."

I had found an editorial where he said that most of the things banned were not yet possible, but I cannot find it now. The quote "today's science fiction is tomorrow's strategic reality" is said (on the Internet) to be from an editorial in the Providence Journal-Bulletin in 1975, but I haven't been able to verify it.

Removed from page[edit]

These two are not in McFadden's June 10, 1932 speech. They may well be from McFadden, but I haven't found where or when. Also, there's already plenty from McFadden on the page.

  • It [the depression] was not accidental. It was a carefully contrived occurrence.... The international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so that they might emerge as the rulers of us all.
    • Congressman Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee
  • The Federal Reserve (Bank) is one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the international bankers.
    • Congressman Louis T. McFadden


This one doesn't seem notable enough to include:

  • There today exists uncontrolled in the hands of a set of men a power to make dollars from nothing.
    • Thomas W. Lawson Frenzied Finance, 1905


I don't see the relevance to "Conspiracy" of the following quotes:

  • This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon.
    • Robert H. Hemphill (Credit Manager of Federal Reserve Bank, Atlanta, Ga.)


  • "100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt ... all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government."
    • Grace Commission Report, submitted to President Ronald Reagan on January 15, 1984