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Wikiquote languages

Why there isn't Bahasa Indonesia if there is Basa Sunda ? Thx... Kenrick95 09:53, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Y Done Updated list of active Wikiquotes on Main Page and Other language Wikiquotes. ~ Ningauble 13:51, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Missing spaces

Can somebody add a space after Themes and Miscellaneous in the Selected pages section? Thanks. -Cwenger 16:08, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Y Done. ~ Ningauble 16:59, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Why does the quote of the day not have a source?

Levelroom 14:49, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

There is a link to a Wikiquote article that should have information about the source. Although I think it would be good to include a citation on the main page, previous discussion of the idea did not lead to implementing it. ~ Ningauble 15:35, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Updated

Please see Wikiquote_talk:Quote_of_the_day#Update. Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 08:12, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't quite get it, and have commented on the above linked talk page. Perhaps I am just easily confused. ~ Ningauble 14:06, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

You said the same thing at Wikiquote_talk:Quote_of_the_day#Update. Please, let us have discussion at one unified location, and not have threaded back-and-forth responses across multiple pages. The above subsection was merely meant as a notice, to direct discussion to Wikiquote_talk:Quote_of_the_day#Update. -- Cirt (talk) 20:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Interwiki gl

Could you ad interwiki gl:? A lot of thanks--HombreDHojalata 20:46, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Y Done. ~ Ningauble 13:38, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

How

How can I get an account?

—This unsigned comment is by 76.208.34.192 (talk • contribs) .

This has been responded to, with the "anon" template:

Welcome to Wikiquote, the free compendium of quotations! You don't have to log in to read or edit articles on Wikiquote, but creating an account is quick, free and non-intrusive, requires you to provide no personal information, and gives you many benefits, including:

• The use of a username of your choice
• The ability to view all your contributions via a "My contributions" link.
• Your own user page
• Your own talk page which, if you choose, also allows users to send you messages without knowing your e-mail address
• The use of your own personal watchlist to which you can add articles that interest you
• The ability to rename pages
• The ability to customize the appearance and behavior of the website
• The eligibility to become an administrator
• The right to be heard in formal votes and elections, and on pages like votes for deletion

Please also see What Wikiquote is not for common activities that Wikiquote does not support.

Click here to create an account. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 20:14, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Daily quotes

It seems we've had a very "zen" streak in the front page quotes. Is there some astrological event going on that I'm not aware of? :) ~ S0CO^{(talk|contribs)} 22:51, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Mu. Always and everywhere. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 19:29, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Swastikas

Um... any particular reason there are swastikas plastered all over today's quote of the day? - dcljr 07:42, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

YES. — I do not mean to insult you or alarm you — but it is to point out MANY of the forms of stupidity of human beings, which prompt them to embrace many forms of overt or subtle forms of facism, represented by the Nazi and Neo-nazi uses of the swastika — and to blindly and ignorantly constrain, destroy and disrespect MANY forms of fairness and freedom — such as the ancient pagan, Jain, Hindu, Buddhist, and Falun Gong uses of the swastika represent.

It is hopelessness even more than pain that crushes the soul. So the decision-making of daily life involves not, as in normal affairs, shifting from one annoying situation to another less annoying — or from discomfort to relative comfort, or from boredom to activity — but moving from pain to pain. One does not abandon, even briefly, one's bed of nails, but is attached to it wherever one goes. 卐 卍 ~ William Styron ~ 卐 卍

The excellent statement of Styron is related to his state of general personal depression, but also relates to a more generalized depression and hopeless state of confusion that exists among many people, due to their willingness to judge themselves or others and condemn MANY as absolutely unworthy of life, or any form of generous consideration or respect, because of the tragic narrowness and smallness of their existing levels of vision, awareness and mindfulness.

In the early part of the twentieth century a group of obnoxious and overt fascists seized upon the device of the swastika as a way to promote their profoundly mentally and spiritually ill agenda — and what had been from ancient times a symbol of dynamically auspicious balance and righteous activity became primarily identified in the minds of millions with the genocidal and totalitarian aims of some of the foulest and most perverse minds that have existed in the history of the world. I am opposed to it or ANY other symbol remaining primarily a symbol of evil in the minds of much of humanity. There is a need for symbols — but there is a NEED to see BEYOND any particular uses of them as well — IF people are to attain TRUE maturity and stability which doesn't impel them to retreat in fear and cowardice from shows of force or fierceness — and to fight fairly as possible against even those LEAST inclined to be fair towards them.

Those most foolishly simple minded will OFTEN think that there is ONLY one proper way to interpret things — THEIR way — and thus many more subtle and obvious forms of fascism abide and flourish — even among those who will insist that they are intensely antifascist — and those which are most dangerous are often those which are most subtle and most disguised. They will seize upon any difference they can point out that certain people "Do NOT Belong among us" — they are different and people must form "commonsensical" groups which can be defined most easily as "US vs THEM". And thus tyrants and toadies rise to power amidst the distressing hatreds and fears they feed upon and vomit forth again for others to feed upon.

Amidst all the tyrants and toadies with varying forms of power, amidst many levels of social organization or disorganization, there also abide minds innocent of such narrow overly presumptive assumptions, truly devoted to Justice, Unity, Liberty, and the Ultimate Spirit of ALL Awareness, Life, and Love — in ALL people — even the WORST of them. And in their fear of the true virtue and actual power of those who often arm themselves with little more than truth to reveal the deficiencies, flaws and farces of their apparent virtue and power, the tyrants and toadies of all stripes will unite in their hostilities to such people in EVERY way they can… making them drink hemlock, crucifying them, burning them at the the stake, misjudging them in many shallow ways, constraining them with straightjackets and walls and rules "for their own good" — calling them ridiculous and overly sensitive and poetic — or overly harsh and dramatic in their various advocacies of freedom and fairness — and the NECESSITY for reliance upon the ultimate power of TRUTH — and REJECTION of the needless use of force and punishments to damage or constrain the lives of others.

Fairness often speaks unpleasant truths as well as pleasant — and thus becomes ignored or undermined by those more facile at forms of flattery — and thus Fascism often flairs and becomes quite popular — until the DOOMS it impels become evident and people once again become aware of proper prudence of NOT using needless force — and respecting the NEED for Justice, Unity, Liberty, and EVER greater respect for Awareness, Life, and Love. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 09:55, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

In summary — MUCH of what I am trying it INDICATE is : AMBIGUITIES ABOUND — those who seek to OVERLY DEFINE the world and others in VERY constrained and limited ways and to eliminate or deny ambiguities NOT to their comfort or liking — OFTEN bring about many of the foulest forms of injustice — which they are often not troubled by at all — so long as they can hide, deny, or ignore it — or find ways which allow others to keep them largely oblivious to it. I prefer to confront MANY forms of interpretation and misinterpretation of motivations and aims and actions and wills, HONESTLY rather than deceiving anyone that there SHOULD be or CAN be only ONE interpretation of ANYTHING. I often deal with complexities far beyond the easy kenning of most — but I don't always attempt to express many of these in words. Circumstances are making me more inclined to do so lately. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 10:04, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Y-y-yeah… I'm sure you think all of that is very profound, but none of it actually justifies the use of the symbols with this particular quote, or indeed why we need 14 of them. Now, if the quote actually referenced the swastika or any philosophies, religions, or political movements that have used it, that would be different. Instead, this strikes me as soapboxing on the Main Page, albeit in a completely opaque and ineffective way. (I find your use of the phrase "it is to point out" especially troubling in this regard. Perhaps in the future you shouldn't try so hard to "point out" things in clever ways using the QotD feature.) As for this particular QotD, I would encourage you (or some other interested party) to remove all the swastika-related images and just keep the ones that clearly are relevant to Styron and/or his quote (i.e., Nat Turner, Auschwitz, and I guess—even though it seems a bit on-the-nose to me—the bed of nails pic). - dcljr 11:25, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I choose images both subtle and obvious in their relations to Styron and his statement and his works. A writer with as profound a discernment and aims as Styron knows that many things relate to other things in ways which are not immediately or obviously apparent — and knows that the limits of language and one's ability to communicate profound ideas can be very depressing — and often quite anguishing — but in pursuit of freedom of will and conscience against those most inclined to constrain and deny the worth of conscience — "One does not abandon, even briefly, one's bed of nails, but is attached to it wherever one goes" — and continues to attempt to increase communication and discernment among many diverse factions of humanity — in trying to prompt awareness of some vitally important forms of universal unity that transcend all shallow definitions and attempts at them — including one's own. Styron and other artists know the importance of defying the sense of futility and despair that can often arise in battles against oppressions of various deliberate or incidental kinds . ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 11:58, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

But don't you think your use of symbols actually reduces the ambiguity of the quotes by pushing people into interpreting them in the way you deem right? 84.73.177.231 15:11, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

We're getting email complaints on this as well. For instance, OTRS ticket 2011061110011006. The swastikas are distracting to say the least and offensive to many. They force a narrow interpretation and also are tacky in terms of design. I suggest they be removed immediately and editorial integrity be asserted. Adrignola 20:29, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Y Done, replaced with quote page from same day from last year. Per OTRS complaints about this issue, eg OTRS ticket 2011061110011006. -- Cirt (talk) 21:00, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

• Though I responded far more extensively to concerns expressed here, long ago in my comments below, I would like to make clear at this point that the comments on the swastikas "force a narrow interpretation" is simply false — they might prompt PUZZLEMENT to many, and incite existing narrow interpretations about things to become more evident, but they FORCE nothing. ALSO, I would like to point out that in the publicly displayed records still existing at this point this act of censorship replaced the ACTUAL quote of the day as well as the layout created for it with an IMPROPER record of what the actual Quote of the day was, and with the controversy of the Main page having swastikas on it LONG gone, the PROPER and TRUE records of what had been selected should be restored. Otherwise the strategies of the totalitarian Ministry of Information in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four at altering the genuine records of the past will CONTINUE to be employed here by some, with apparent impunity and pride. I consider it lamentable that understandable reaction to a symbol ABUSED by authoritarian autocrats has been used to justify acts of extremely authoritarian behavior here. ~ ♞☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 15:25, 4 February 2012 (UTC) + tweaks
  • The revision history of the page appears to be intact. ~ Ningauble 15:51, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
    • I wasn't claiming that things had YET gone so far as to change the revision history — but the actual quote and layout that PRODUCED so much consternation and controversy has been censored from the NORMALLY viewable records, with the June 11 2010 quote and layout replacing it at Wikiquote:Quote of the day/June 2011 page, such had been maintained for ALL months accessible through QOTD by month. ~ ♞☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 16:11, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Discussion: There is a general discussion about asserting editorial control over images on the Main Page at Wikiquote:Village pump#Images on Main Page. ~ Ningauble 21:25, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

---

The following message was composed after viewing some comments by IP 84.73.177.231 earlier today but which I was constrained from immediately responding to because of blocks Cirt had placed on the IPs of my home computers — despite this continuing to be NOT appropriate action based on community consensus. I copied it to a thumb drive and am now posting it, along with a few comments regarding actions taking in response to the images and quotes which had been selected for the QOTD.

But don't you think your use of symbols actually reduces the ambiguity of the quotes by pushing people into interpreting them in the way you deem right? 84.73.177.231 15:11, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

I am WELL aware that people could easily believe such things, and even KNOW that such things might be true in some limited senses, but I also know that is not the primary FACT which could be construed from examination of the montage, nor of my words in response to perplexities or irritations which have been expressed or indicated here. I am not actually reducing ambiguities at all — I am simply finding means to make a few people a little bit more aware of SOME of them.

The wise know that ambiguity is ubiquitous. This does NOT mean that expressions or indications are valueless — as some who call themselves nihilists might seek to imply or construe — often in very presumptive or authoritarian ways —  but that MANY values can arise and be assigned to many things — including the words and symbols used in the common intercourse of human minds. Many of the wisest and most experienced explorers of thought and ideas would assert that there are no ends to the varieties of ambiguity which can arise in examining reality. ONE of the MOST IMPORTANT things to do is to BE AWARE of that FACT — and HELP people become so.

Throughout most of my life I have usually sought to find many ways to remain obscure and unnoticed — but when I feel that there is a need for me to be noticed at all, I usually try to be as amusing and entertaining and interesting and educational about many vitally important facts as I can be — not a mere irritation or abuser of anyone — but I am willing to sometimes irritate and be extremely harsh to those I perceive to be most casually willing to unjustly irritate and be overly harsh to others and their proper rights and liberties as human beings. I am QUITE aware that many might judge me to be sometimes overly harsh to others — and I would not deny that I might sometimes seem or be so — but usually when I am being harsh with anyone, there is indeed many aspects of justice or necessity at work that MOST people might not immediately or easily become aware of — and I ALWAYS acknowledge the right of others to disagree with me and to express their disagreements as honestly and vigorously as they wish.

Words and symbols, and the rules people devise with them ALWAYS deceive those who place too much trust in them. There is no way to be safe from deceptions — and those who seek to constrain and limit the amounts of information available to others in various ways are the MOST deceptive of all. Much of my own use of words, like that of many people, INDEED involves double-talk and multiple-entendre expressions designed to preserve and delight in ambiguities or the signaling of such, which will NOT be recognized by many — but I do NOT aim to keep anyone permanently or detrimentally deceived in ANY ways — and MOST abhor the mindsets of those who DO seek to do such things. I do NOT seek to do such people any harm — but I DO often seek to prevent them from doing needless harm to others or themselves — and this can involve letting some forms of harm to myself or others arise — to PREVENT what I perceive would be far worse harm to human liberty.

In my life I have encountered MANY who wish to END discussions SWIFTLY and with little consideration in ways which favor their own stances, and are unwilling or unable to debate or discuss matters — or even tolerate determined dissent. They often wish to RUSH discussions, and entirely lack the patience or wit to appreciate such complex genius as exhibited by Swift or Melville, or Adams who I can sometimes disagree with, despite immense admiration for them, or some of the worst absurdities of cleverly effective shallowness of such people as Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck— who I can occasionally firmly agree with, though I abhor much of the general tenor of their expressions and many of their motives — and what they generally seek to imply with many expressions of truth or falsehoods which lead to the favoring and support of some of the foulest of falsehoods and outright lies which corrupt the minds of millions. I do NOT wish to inspire hatred or animosity for their personal lives — but I do not deny I have intense animosity for many of their aims.

IF I were to provide ANYONE a firm label for what I am it would be a COMPLEX one that would IMPEL them to examine MANY of the ambiguities and false assumptions that go into the casual use of words and labels which many use.

Though I can respect many elements of many diverse political and religious factions, I belong to NO established political party, nor organized religious institutions. In a very paradoxical paradigm of resolutions and reconciliations not easy for many to fathom, I might reasonably and perplexingly be called an existentially absurd passionately involved transcendently compassionate and aloof moderately pacific militant radical agnostic gnostic liberal conservative libertarian socialist democratic republican communitarian communist religiously irreligious Angelic Idiot, with a great fondness and aversions for many called anarchists as well as those too foolish or too wise to use any such labels, with a strong abhorrence of many forms of casual anarchism, and MOST forms of rigorous authoritarianism and tyranny — ESPECIALLY by those who would seek to absolutely define themselves or anyone else by ONLY one of any of these or any other labels — and vigorously opposed to ALL forms of terrorism. I know I CERTAINLY could find MANY things to disagree with amidst any who would like to use any of those words in such an exclusive and highly exclusionary way. Even when I myself use the term fascist in reference to people's attitudes or behavior in regard to something, I usually do not mean to imply that they are ONLY or primarily fascists or irredeemably so — but apply the term like I use the term painter — as a describing ONE aspect of what they do or are inclined to do — and with a hope that the NAMING and realization of their fascist tendencies can impel the integrity of at least some of them to abandon such and become a more healthy and aware individual. There are NO people I presume to be free of some capacities for tyrannical fascism or evil, though they can come to be motivated to be such through VARIOUS delusions and errors.

Though I am quite forgiving and tolerant towards many idiots — CERTAINLY being one myself, I am a person at war with many forms of idiocy — and have been intensely most of my life — though I have not usually let this show in so obvious a way as I have recently begun to here, and consider some of the worst forms of idiocy are those which seek to brand ANYONE as WHOLLY virtuous or vile — no matter how vain, vicious or truly villainous they might be.

As a first class IDIOT who recognizes myself as such in MANY ways, and many others as IDIOTS in ways they have not even begun to recognize, I seek to become an ever-worthier ANGEL of True Eternal Grace — and inspire others to be as well.

So much for the flow of verbose verifications of a tendency towards pragmatically pompous poetics and pretensions for now… I confess I sometimes do like precipitating necessary crises, when they must come — and further confusing some of the most tragically confused, and making people who most WORSHIP the idolatry of words TIRED and weary of trying to understand things BY words that can only, AT MOST, be INDICATED through words — and PROVEN by actions and events — and never actually PROVEN in all ways conceivable even by these.

I truly believe that ultimately, ALL IS WELL, no matter how distressing and tragic MANY things and events may OFTEN seem — and MORE well in more ways than I can ever indicate through words or statements… and I know that even saying this can distress and disturb some people who cannot see ANY way how this can be so — and think that things MUST be MOSTLY wrong if THEY cannot see how they are mostly right — or even, in some impossible to percieve ways ENTIRELY right. I believe they are particularly wrong in this — and logic and reason does support me on this — though not in ways that I am deluded enough to believe many of them could immediately understand.

---

I had a very few more comments beyond the above, in my original composition, but some of these are relatively insignificant as compared to issues that are now evident, as I now respond to further comments and activity which have occurred after I composed most of the above comments, as I have now arrived at my present location where my access to this wiki has not been constrained to my talk page by Cirts suppressive actions upon my home computer. I believe that the quote and imagery used was censored in activity I consider entirely inappropriate. I will seek to make a few more observations here in coming weeks, but am not immediately inclined to be overly involved in disputing what has been done at this time. I sorrow that people cannot recognize that the imagery used was in relation to the NEED for sincerely anti-fascist attitudes and behavior — and to reject behavior that are actually endorsements of fascist tendencies against what many might ignorantly suppose to be a pro-fascist presentation of symbols which have been used and abused by fascists.

For many years I have often sought to provide THOUGHT provoking imagery and quotes in the selections made for QOTD — and objected to calls for the banal and bland to be mandated by those who actually have severe problems with permitting a broad range diversity of thoughts and opinions to be presented. I expect that I will have to make further arguments on this matter within a few days, but for now will continue to do some simple editing while I consider matters. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 00:55, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

God forgive me, but this Kalki individual is becoming increasingly bewildered and autocratic. He (and only a sad and isolated male could ever resort to the pathetic, self-serving tripe he regularly emits) uses these pages as a platform to try to exorcise his own nothingness. Best to ignore. ( His excruciatingly unsophisticated use of block capitals to evince his illogical and lack lustre opinions are particularly tiresome.) I imagine no one ever reads the paragraphs of specious nonsense he produces, but still - can this individual not be removed from editing these fine pages? Wikiquote is not a private fiefdom for semi-educated drifters on welfare... (empty curve 7 July 2011)

I could respond to this particular form of shallow tripe more extensively, but I prefer to quote a fellow clown who knew he was a clown, as something of an antidote to those who are, and yet fail to perceive that, and would sternly punish anyone who doesn't take their tripe as seriously as they do:

In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way. Greed has poisoned men's souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. ~ Charlie Chaplin, in The Great Dictator (1940)

Like Chaplin I can laugh at myself as well as my adversaries, and not hiding or denying anger at open or disgused forms of intolerance, bigotry and fascism, do my best to expose it for what it is, even while doing my best to forgive those who are so ignorant and confused as to indulge in it in ways that are momentarily acceptable or popular because of the shallowness of many people's perceptions. Though I do speak in anger at times, I generally invite people to paths of greater ease and laughter, far more than I seek to be harshly menacing to those who are ignorant and confused and who tend to believe that they are somewhere close to the pinnacle of human wisdom in many possible regards — and fit to judge what should be the opportunities and fates of others. Those who are far higher than they in intellectual and ethical merit have abandoned such delusions for ages past, and simply seek to clarify the need for Liberty and Justice for all — NOT just those who comport themselves in ways the timid and tyrannous find most acceptable. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 23:00, 7 July 2011 (UTC) + tweaks

I would like to clarify further a few things about the images and symbols used, in what was intended to be a very somber and sobering assessments of human misapplication of many symbols and signs and prejudices and presumptions associated with them: In presenting the statements of William Styron, which like my own were designed to actually prompt people to go beyond shallow and narrow comfort levels and probe the discrepancies between what people actually advocate and what they often do, there were 2-3 swastikas which could be properly designated Nazi swastikas which have become recognized symbols of intolerance and bigotry, and there are 16 other swastikas (as well as even those 2 or 3, however horribly misused they might be), which could be taken as evoking traditions dating back thousands of years which are ancient indications of such assertions as "ALL IS WELL" — from those of the generally gentle and pacifistic Jains — as well as those of the Hindu and Buddhists, and more recent innovations denoting ancient or modern ideas. I am always appalled when people call for strong forms of censorship and oppression to insure that views other than their own are not heard or considered — no matter how virtuous many of their own ideas might generally be — if they are truly virtuous they can withstand presentations of other ideas. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 23:11, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Just an opinion on today's (17 Nov 2011) QOTD from Voltairine de Cleyre

(Oh Gawd!, Not that worn-out old boogeyman, "fascism" yet again!?

Yep. Sorry. Today's QOTD seems to be practically a mission statement for fascism. At least for authoritarian "leaders" in fascist regimes. One can easily imagine this quote as part of Goebbels' introduction of Hitler before a huge crowd, saying it is a triumph of the will that we have such strong leaders who tenaciously seek to impose their wishes on the populace no matter how unpopular and no matter anything else, for that matter.

I think it is perfectly fine to expose people to quotes from fascists, communists, or whomever - it makes for a better educated, and therefore just plain better, citizenry. Heck, Ronald Reagan almost bragged that he had studied The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital, and he was strongly anti-Communist, for instance.

Afterthought

As an afterthought, it does bother me a bit when such quotes are presented with no commentary or context to indicate the antidemocratic aspect of the quote. Open-source projects are inherently democratic, IMHO, so we should permit and maybe even require that NPOV not be followed in one small way when presenting the QOTD. Avoid turning the QOTD into a political pulpit, but just a minimalist statement that,

"The editors identify the preceding quote as antidemocratic, and hope you consider that when thinking about today's quote, whether you consider that and then agree or disagree, our only aim is that you consider it before moving on."

Or some such boiler-plate statement, this was composed very much on the fly, and probably many of you can do something better. But maybe you see what I'm aiming for.

Again, this is just a talk page and just my opinion. I am not campaigning for or against anything; this is not a campaign in any way. My suggestion above is purely an afterthought, given momentary exposure and then moving on. I am not trolling for angry responses. If you just plain disagree with me, that's fine but please don't waste your bandwidth or everyone else's by posting flames or rants. My opinion isn't really important enough to justify that.

Thank you for listening. I hope you found it worth your time.  :-)

69.17.65.107 14:59, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Though I might sometimes be harsh in my rhetoric and assertions, your honest commentaries are welcomed, and I believe any proper anarchist or libertarian socialist with high regard for the promotion of justice, unity and liberty of ALL people would certainly accept ANY and all honest expressions of opinions — no matter how much they must strongly disagree with many aspects of such statements — as I certainly DO.

I believe that many people do not understand that when one speaks with honest harshness, one IS being more genuinely RESPECTFUL of the rational capacities of others than one who delicately avoids indicating anything that might possibly offend or irritate the most "thin-skinned" of zealots and shallow of minds.

I regularly observe how thin-skinned and shallow critics of notions of liberty and justice that exceed their narrow "right-wing" or "left-wing" views very often are — while those I respect as the broadest-minded centrists can weep and laugh simultaneously at the hilarious ABSURDITY of many peoples reactions to any ATTEMPTS at honest and sincere presentation of ideas outside the narrow mazes of deceit and delusion they normally tread.

You state:

"Today's QOTD seems to be practically a mission statement for fascism."

This certainly is more than a bit ironic because Voltairine de Cleyre was a very highly respected anarchist and was speaking in this instance from a stance that could be reconciled not only with those of Individualist anarchism but those of any well developed forms of Libertarian socialism or Anarchist communism:

Let us have Men, Men who will say a word to their souls and keep it — keep it not when it is easy, but keep it when it is hard — keep it when the storm roars and there is a white-streaked sky and blue thunder before, and one's eyes are blinded and one's ears deafened with the war of opposing things; and keep it under the long leaden sky and the gray dreariness that never lifts. Hold unto the last: that is what it means to have a Dominant Idea, which Circumstance cannot break. And such men make and unmake Circumstance.

I myself am a person who actively strives to present MANY of the views of MANY people in thought provoking ways, and permit the presentation of even such views as I MUST disagree with and oppose — whereas many others would constrain or suppress them to such points as they could rarely if ever be heard, and NEVER in such a context as permits an adequate assessment of situations that might not accord with their preferences.

I am certainly NOT a promoter of mere selfishness or fascism, as many who style themselves "individualists" or even libertarians all too often ARE — but neither am I passively submissive to those highly deluded or well-disguised forms of authoritarianism which would forbid and censor and restrict the free expressions of others into some narrow shallow notions of what "politically correct" people — whether ostensibly of the "right" or "left" varieties would prescribe for all.

"As an afterthought, it does bother me a bit when such quotes are presented with no commentary or context to indicate the antidemocratic aspect of the quote."

At that point I mentally asked Who exactly would you have provide such enlightened commentary — a Politburo or some other bureaucracy of those MOST CONCERNED with DICTATING to others what can or cannot be said, and how or how not ANY statement can or "SHOULD" be understood?

You extend that statement and provide an example of what you would find admirable:

"Open-source projects are inherently democratic, IMHO, so we should permit and maybe even require that NPOV not be followed in one small way when presenting the QOTD. Avoid turning the QOTD into a political pulpit, but just a minimalist statement that,

"The editors identify the preceding quote as antidemocratic, and hope you consider that when thinking about today's quote, whether you consider that and then agree or disagree, our only aim is that you consider it before moving on."

I would characterize open-source projects as inherently anti-authoritarian or anarchistic — arguably as an anarchist de Cleyre is arguably "antidemocratic" — and CERTAINLY so, if by democracy you mean to imply that the majority has the right to tyrannize over minorities — but she is definitely ALSO anti-authoritarian — and asserts that any truly legitimate and just democracy recognizes and adheres to principles of Liberty — and does NOT permit majorities to absolutely control and dictate the rights of minorities, any more than any powerful minority should be permitted to dictate to weak or defenseless majorities what they can or cannot do. Far too often the stances of modern politics, even in nominal democracies, have adhered to policies designed to weaken and marginalize OPPONENTS and adversaries rather than ERRORS, delusions and LIES — and thus those things grow strong and influential among ALL factions, and the parties diminish in rational as well as moral integrity.

From my perspectives it is you who are advocating authoritarian "Thought control" and even proposing an increase in the powers of those who would make themselves or others "Thought Police" with great "officially" mandated control over people's lives and resources — often "officially sanctioned" by others MOST interested in being thought-police themselves. And thus tyrants and their toadies often rise to prominence and power, while genuine advocates of Justice, Unity and Liberty in ways that are not comfortable to many are actively suppressed.

To use the intro to "Authoritarianism" of which Fascism is a variety — such are DEFINED as forms of social organization characterized by submission to authority and thus usually opposed to individualism, liberalism, democracy, libertarianism and anarchism.

Anarchism is generally considered one of MOST hostile of ideologies to all the ways to fascism, and all forms of authoritarianism — and as such I strongly sympathize with MANY aspects, or most aspects of anarchist and libertarian socialist thought — though I can normally find some flaws or deficiencies in many of their expressions, I prefer their ways to any of those used to apparently justify the diminishment of human liberties and opportunities.

Though I am well aware that there are people who call themselves nihilists who would also claim that they are anarchists as well, who eagerly advocate violence and oppression against those they can characterize as "unjust oppressors", I believe the most profound and genuine anarchists would always repudiate those who advocate destructive violence more dire than that which is clearly necessary to prevent greater destruction, and ALWAYS be extremely cautious in assessing where the worst forms of oppression or injustice lie.

I recently moved a motto I have long loved: "Love rules without rules" to a prominent place on my talk page. I truly believe that those who speak with greatest authority ALWAYS speak with LOVE of TRUTH and the Truths of LOVE, while those who SEEK to rule or seek to establish rules which constrain and forbid and defame all actions outside of those they can appreciate as clearly or even immediately beneficial to their appetites and prejudices seek to create abundance of rules which forbid and constrain many forms of thought itself.

These are just a few thoughts of my own, in response to yours, and I fully advocate OPEN and honest expressions of views — and generally MUST oppose the efforts of some to constrain expression of honest ideas, or to limit them in absolutist ways. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 15:44, 17 November 2011 (UTC) + tweaks

• I cannot conceive how de Cleyre's statement about commitment to one's ideas could be interpreted as a mission statement for fascism. This misunderstanding demonstrates quite clearly why it is not a good idea to include commentary from users about what they think a quote signifies. Let the quotes speak for themselves. If they can sometimes be misunderstood then so be it; it is better than inviting the blind to lead the blind, or engaging in digressive discussions. ~ Ningauble 17:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Time on the main page

Is there a reason why there's a time on the main page? It's since it's cached it doesn't serve as a useful indicator of the current time. If it's just there to serve as a last edited time, it would be helpful to label it as such and possibly move it closer to the bottom. Johnduhart 22:15, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't seem particularly useful. It actually indicates the time the page was last rendered, subject to caching, not the time of the last edit, which is shown with a timestamp on the bottom of every page. This page also has another stale cache issue, though a less volatile one, due to transcluding {{Main Page Quote of the day}}. ~ Ningauble 16:12, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

new here

hi im new to this so go easy on me people —This unsigned comment is by Alice miskits muse (talk • contribs) .

Telugu wikiquote

Please give the link to Telugu wikiquote in the main page. Thank you. The link is given here: http://te.wikiquote.org/wiki/%E0%B0%AE%E0%B1%8A%E0%B0%A6%E0%B0%9F%E0%B0%BF_%E0%B0%AA%E0%B1%87%E0%B0%9C%E0%B1%80 Rajasekhar1962 06:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Y Done. ~ Ningauble 15:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Today's Quote of The Day(Feb.01,2012)

Seems in very good taste...--Oracleofottawa 01:53, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Due to potential date shifts in different Time zones I am not sure whether you were commenting on the Hughes quote or the Joyce one — but the both were profound statements originally suggested by InvisibleSun (talk · contributions) which I attempted to present in memorable and significant ways. Thanks for the appreciation. ~ ♞☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 02:44, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

A Little Out of Hand?

It really takes away from the impact of the main Wikiquote Page that it does not have any pictures at all! Surely we can work this out to the majorities satisfaction.--Oracleofottawa 02:35, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Notice re discussion on Image use policy

Please see Wikiquote_talk:Image_use_policy#Proposed:_BD2412_suggested_criteria. -- Cirt (talk) 04:27, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

List of misquotations

Can we delink this from the main page ? It needs a lot of clean-up and isn't representative of our best work. --Tryst (talk) 12:37, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Y Done, diff. -- Cirt (talk) 14:01, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. --Tryst (talk) 15:28, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Quote of the Day 10 Jun 2012

It reads: "You can’t make anything go anywhere. It just happens". Thelonious Monk.^{[citation needed]} Is it normal to have a {{citation needed}} on the main page? It Is Me Here ^{t / c} 20:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

No. It is normal for the QotD to be have a link to a page on which a full citation may be found. (The quote has subsequently been added to the author page with a citation.) It is also normal for the quote to be selected from those nominated for the date rather than being posted out of the blue by a one-time IP user, but the person who normally handles it was absent. ~ Ningauble (talk) 13:39, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Disband this Wiki

I love quotes. Probably more than I should. But this wiki is a joke and it just refuses to improve. Why don't you just give it up and disband the whole effort already? I knew that when I clicked on the link of the Seven Sages of Greece and it sent me to Wikipedia instead of a page within the wiki for directing to the individual sages that this wiki was never going to get better. No page for Chilon of Sparta, by the way? Get it together. Okay bye. --66.188.120.239 22:25, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Tamil Wikiquote

Please give link to the Tamil Wikiquote in English Wikiquote main page. Also in Wikiquote home page, I request to insert Tamil language above 100 list. Since the total number of pages in tamil wikiquote is now 109. Thank you. --Inbamkumar86 (talk) 19:43, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Y Done. Updated list of active Wikiquotes on Main Page and Other language Wikiquotes. ~ Ningauble (talk) 19:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

In [1] home page, please also add the language Tamil to above 100 list. --Inbamkumar86 (talk) 21:22, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Requests to update the portal page may be made at Meta:Talk:www.wikiquote.org template. Only the administrators of Meta-Wiki can edit project portals. ~ Ningauble (talk) 14:36, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Quote of the day 11 Sep 2011

This quote does not appear on the movie's page on Wikiquote. 83.70.170.48 10:13, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

[I am assuming you mean today's date 11 September 2012]: Actually ONCE upon a time it was, but due to the herd-think mentality which absolutely emphasizes quantities rather than qualities which is currently prevailing among many here, it was removed. I have neither the time nor sufficient interest to sort out all the deletions that have occurred because those lacking in either imagination or sense believe they are serving the project by drastically REDUCING the amount of ideas available to people according to the preferences of a very few who seem most concerned with actively controlling and constraining the contributions of others, and believe that is about the best service they or anyone else could render to this project — perhaps exceeded only by the devising of rules to constrain and control the contributions of others even more, and labelling anyone with a more genuinely conservative and liberal dispositions and greater imagination and interest in PRESENTING ideas as "disruptor" or disturber of their peace. I am generally spending my time doing things where I can contribute with far more sensible imagination without facing the regular barrage of senseless impediments that are increasingly being encountered here. I usually only spend a few minutes a day here now, where once it was a place to which I regularly devoted hours of my attention on most days. Those days, at least for now, are gone. I must be leaving now. ~ ♞☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 11:42, 11 September 2012 (UTC) + tweaks

How can one add a quote?

Acting nowadays is an interdisciplinary course for all professions. I thought the sports and the arts are exempted. Which among these professions has the subtlety to mask the lie? by Isidro T. Savillo I took this from his theoretical biology web page.

Not just a single quote of the day

I would suggest more than 1 quote for the day. make it 4 quotes for the day and it must cover various fields of interest... quote from a writer, from a scientist,from an actor from an imbecile, from a religious, from a prostitute or neuter, from a world circum navigator, from a hermit, from historian, from a deaf and dumb complexed human, from a gay or lesbian, from a fatty or slimmy person, from the royalty, from a paroled criminal, from a dreamer, from a provacateur, from an evil or witch, from a lawyer, from soothsayer, from a snake's hisses with an added chatter from a chicken it may form a sound pleasing enough to weave a quote of word/s, from a centenarian, from a scuba diver, from a neurotic or insane person, from a shoplifter, from a cabin crew, from a playboy or playgirl, from a dancer, from a museum curator, from a fan, from a housekeeper of old castles, from a lady in waiting, from a royal blooded baby whose mom was just one of the flings, from a dwarf or fairy, from a maniac... just like the quote you have right now- it seems so lowly low to take68.68.108.210 16:45, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Sanskrit wikiquote link

Since Sanskrit wikiquote has come out of incubator some time ago, please provide an interlanguage wiki link to Sanskrit wikiquote (sa.wikiquote.org) on the sidebar here. Thanks. -Hemant wikikosh (talk) 12:33, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Y Done. ~ Ningauble (talk) 18:04, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks.-Hemant wikikosh (talk) 11:56, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Selected pages

The articles that appear in that list were "selected" over five years ago. Do they really represent the best of Wikiquote? I think this is something we should discuss. ~ DanielTom (talk) 12:33, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I believe some should perhaps be switched with others, and a few added, but in the past there was a preference for not changing much there without extensive consideration. I believe it probably is about time to begin considering some alternatives or additions. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 13:11, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that it would be good to discuss what is on the list. I actually made some additions last month to the 'People' list (adding Ralph Waldo Emerson, George Bernard Shaw, and Bertrand Russell), but I think it is a good idea to review all categories. I recommend that you post a notice on the VP to start a discussion (and perhaps some nominations of what you might want to switch or add) ~ UDScott (talk) 14:21, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I think that the page Anonymous should be removed from that list, because it presents almost no sources whatever. ~ DanielTom (talk) 15:29, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I would finally suggest removing the Timothy Leary and Starhawk articles from the list as well, to replace them with the more noteworthy authors Alfred, Lord Tennyson‎ and Alexander Pope‎. That way (if we also remove the Anonymous article, per above), the list would have exactly 30 pages. Thoughts? ~ DanielTom (talk) 19:17, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

P.S. I would also be inclined to add Charles Dickens to the list. ~ DanielTom (talk) 22:06, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I have never been one to wish to fix definite numerical constraints on much of anything, but know there are practical limits to how many can be included. I think the recent additions have been good ones, and would support the addition of Dickens and Tennyson, but would remove Leary only if some other figure of his era replaced him, such as John Lennon, and would retain Starhawk as a well known pagan feminist since the 1970s, and one of only 3 women on the list. Although there remain problems with the page, I am not inclined to remove Anonymous, but don't feel strongly about it either way. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 23:37, 21 April 2013 (UTC) + tweak

Interesting points (you make feminists proud). I agree with you when it comes to "definite numerical constraints"; indeed, as I wrote in an edit summary, "having only 30 pages is not strictly necessary". I don't mind if we just add to the list, say, Charles Dickens, without removing any other article. But you see the problem here — if we are only willing to add (everyone is), but never to replace, eventually that list will either become disproportionately large or, as is the case now, very important writers will be left out. Stalemate. ~ DanielTom (talk) 00:28, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I wonder why we don't implement a "Good articles" system here at Wikiquote. If we could do that, we wouldn't have this problem. ~ DanielTom (talk) 07:35, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikiquote:Quote of the day/April 2013 - lay out

In the Wikiquote:Quote of the day/April 2013 - lay out with four images surrounding the text, I find it extremely difficult to focus on the text. -- Mdd (talk) 12:12, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

On the other hand, without pictures, the QOTD would go unnoticed. ~ DanielTom (talk) 12:28, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

The biggest problem is, I think, the selection of the pictures themselves. Indeed, that is implicit in the criticism "Wikiquote is not "Kalki's personal art project". One way to solve that problem would be to "force" Kalki to only select images of authors' portraits, thereby impossibilitating the use subjective pictures. I don't support this restriction myself, because I don't think Kalki would like it, and I fear that without him we would have no QOTD. Just a thought. ~ DanielTom (talk) 16:25, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, hard to focus: it is a bit like trying to read a good book while the television is blaring at full volume in the same room. This has been discussed around the Village Pump before, at "Images on Main Page" and at "Main Page and images". My recent attempts to turn the volume down a bit were all reverted,[2][3][4][5][6][7] so compromise appears to be elusive; but no QOTD at all would be drastic. ~ Ningauble (talk) 18:30, 30 April 2013 (UTC)