Talk:Wreck-It Ralph

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VLC Icon.svg This article needs to conform to our limits on quotations policy.

The subject of this article is a film, and as a result, there should only be: five quotes per hour (about one quote every 12 minutes).

If you would like to add another quote to the page, you may first need to remove one that is already there in order to keep within the bounds of fair use of copyright material.


Motion to re-add a quote from the song "Wreck-It, Wreck-It Ralph" by Buckner & Garcia[edit]

On 6 November, I added a short quote from the song "Wreck-It, Wreck-It Ralph," a song from the film.  You can see the edit I made here.  As you can see, I included only a small portion of the song.  Further, the lyrics I included constitute a short back-story to the lead character in the film, and thus seemed wholly appropriate for inclusion.

Later that same day, WikiLubber removed my addition, writing merely "Removed for copyvio."  You can see this reversion here.  (WikiLubber also removed my ultra-short Vanellope von Schweetz quote in the same edit, although I couldn't possibly imagine that WikiLubber removed that quote intentionally, given its brevity.  I can only assume that the revision's intended target was the song lyrics.)

What I'm not sure is why my edit constituted a greater copyright violation than any other quote from the film already listed.  I certainly abided by the Wikiquote:Limits_on_quotations#Films rule in that I did not add more than five quotes in a single hour—indeed, I only added two quotes total.  Perhaps this quote was deemed to be more of a copyright violation than the other quotes already on the page due to it consisting of lyrics, but that, too, wouldn't make sense when one considers that Wikiquote includes lyrics on many of its pages (e.g., 1, 2, 3).

Personally, it would seem to me that my edit was less of a copyright violation than many of the other edits that have been made to this article.  For example, in the Dialogue section, there are some extremely long quotes that would be far better examples of copyright violations.

Consider the long exchange between Wreck-It Ralph and King Candy, which meanders from Ralph being covered in sweets to a discussion of whether the throne room is pink or salmon to the question of whether Ralph is "going Turbo" to the point about Ralph wanting his medal back to King Candy's threat to throw Ralph into his fungeon (including a discussion on how fungeon is a play on words).  Or consider the exchange between Wreck-It Ralph and Vanellope von Schweetz, which consists mostly of insults hurled by Vanellope at Ralph, and also meanders from thievery to a debate about the difference between coins and medals to insults to Ralph angrilly wrecking to more insults to some deal-making.  And the exchange between Vanellope von Schweetz and King Candy is almost entirely unnecessary (save, perhaps, for the last two lines thereof).

All said and told, my inclusion of a few short lines from the soundtrack seems benign compared to the rather lengthy quotes included elsewhere in this article.  But, perhaps there really is some valid reason said lyrics must remain absent from this article, some valid reason that I simply haven't yet realised.  If such a reason indeed exists, I would genuinely appreciate it being shared with me.

Best regards,
allixpeeke (talk) 17:10, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I made some further edits to this page, truncating the quotes greatly.  You can read below about my truncations of the conversations between the members of Bad Anon, between King Candy and Ralph, between Ralph and Vanellope, between Ralph and Felix, and between King Candy/Turbo and Vanellope.  If you want to see what all of these edits look like combined, see this.)

Given that there is now a lot less content from the film contained in this article, perhaps we can see fit to re-add a simple little quote from the song "Wreck-It, Wreck-It Ralph"?  Something to consider.

Cheers,
allixpeeke (talk) 19:23, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

The Bad Guy Affirmation[edit]

Currently, the Bad Guy Affirmation ("I'm bad, and that's good; I will never be good, and that's not bad; there's no one I'd rather be than me") is located in the Wreck-It Ralph character section.  Although Ralph does utter these words, I nevertheless believe it is a bad place to put this quote, given that he did not come up with the phrase himself.  Since the phrase was written for the members of Bad Anon, I believe it would be more appropriate to move the quote to a section specifically for Bad Anon.

Thus, I am going to create a new section and label it ==Bad Anon's "Bad Guy Affirmation"==.  I will delete the quote from the Wreck-It Ralph section, and move the quote to this new section.

I don't expect this edit to be controversial, but if for some reason you do believe this edit is ill-advised or detrimental to the article, do please explain here.

Best,
allixpeeke (talk) 17:35, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I've made the edit.  You can see the change here.

Again, I doubt there will be any controversy, since, as you can see, all I did was move a quote from one place to another; I did not add to the quote or take away from it.  But, if there is some reasonable objection to my edit, please let me know here.

Cheers,
allixpeeke (talk) 17:48, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

My "Bad Guy Affirmation" edit was unceremoniously undone by WikiLubber on 10 November 2014.  You can see WikiLubber's edit here.  The only explanation WikiLubber gives for undoing my "Bad Guy Affirmation" edit was this: "Long quotes are not copyvio. Too many quotes is."

This completely ignores the fact that this "Bad Guy Affirmation" edit was never made on either length or copyright grounds.  Rather, I made this edit on the grounds that, although Ralph does say these words, they're not really his words; the words were written for the members of Bad Anon, and therefore should be located in it's own section, such as ==Bad Anon's "Bad Guy Affirmation"==.

WikiLubber's only rationale for placing the quote back in the ==Wreck-It Ralph== section (i.e., "Long quotes are not copyvio. Too many quotes is.") fails to adequately explain why WikiLubber believes it is better to have this article misleadingly imply that these are Ralph's words—indeed, it fails to even address the concerns that motivated me to move the quote in the first place.

Now, perhaps there is some sort of reasonable objection to my "Bad Guy Affirmation" edit, and if there are any such reasonable objections, please do write out said objections here.  I shall leave WikiLubber's undoing-of-my-"Bad-Guy-Affirmation"-edit intact for the time being, with the hopes that, if there are reasonable objections, they will be shared here and discussed.

At present, however, I personally cannot conceive of any such objections.  I can conceive of someone objecting to the section-name being ==Bad Anon's "Bad Guy Affirmation"==; perhaps some might say that that section-name is too long.  But, again, that doesn't seem to be an actual objection to the proposition of moving the quote; that's merely an objection to the section-name itself, and could easily be resolved by shortening it to just ==The Bad Guy Affirmation== or even simply ==Bad Anon==.  But, to reiterate, perhaps there is some sort of reasonable objection to even moving the quote that I just haven't yet considered, and if there is, I hope said objection can be stated here so that a civil and productive discussion can be had on the merits of the proposition.

Respectfully yours,
allixpeeke (talk) 21:25, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

I've truncated the discussion between the members of Bad Anon[edit]

Down in the Dialogue section, the conversation between the members of Bad Anon seemed to run a little long, making me worry that it might constitute a copyright violation.  So, I truncated it.

You can see my edit here.

What I left in was Ralph's admission that he didn't want to be a bad guy and the other members questioning whether he's considering "going Turbo," as I felt that that was the important conveyance of this particular quote.

Feel free to discuss if you believe there is anything amiss about this edit.

Cheers,
allixpeeke (talk) 17:55, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Even though nobody discussed believing there was anything amiss about my edit to the discussion between the members of Bad Anon, my edit to this discussion was unceremoniously undone by WikiLubber on 10 November 2014.  You can see WikiLubber's edit here.  The only explanation WikiLubber gives for undoing my Bad-Anon-members edit was this: "Long quotes are not copyvio. Too many quotes is."

This seems to incorrectly imply that, if we were to quote every single word in Wreck-It Ralph, that would be 'a-okay' as long as it's all one, long, extended quote; of course, that actually would be a copyright violation, which is why Wikiquote:Copyrights says, "one must consider the proportionality of the quotation to the work as a whole."

That said, I do not wish to defend this edit I made on the grounds of copyright law.  For sake of argument, let's pretend that copyright law does not exist.  I would still argue that my edit was a good one and that it should be restored.

When I made this edit to the discussion between the members of Bad Anon, I aimed to cut out the bits of the conversation that I felt didn't add anything meaningful to Wikiquote.  Here's what I had edited out:

  1. Clyde asks Ralph why Ralph decided to show up to Bad Anon, a question that is only worthwhile to the readers of Wikiquote if we include Ralph's response.
  2. Ralph provides a very wishy-washy answer suggesting that he wasn't entirely sure himself but that he suspects it has something to do with it being the 30th anniversary of his game.  Let's keep in mind, this meeting occurred before Ralph sees the party being thrown for Felix, so so-far-in-the-film the straw hasn't broken the camel's back.  Ralph just feels ostracised, and has felt so for decades, but that doesn't mean he understands exactly why he chose that night to attend; hence, the wishy-washy answer.  The reader of Wikiquote gains nothing from reading this answer, nor is the answer really all that "quotable."  Even without copyright law, I see no reason for including this on Wikiquote, and so I likewise see no reason for including Clyde's question.
  3. Satan wishes Ralph a happy anniversary.  This is filler and naturally does not merit inclusion.
  4. Ralph thanks Satan.  More filler.
  5. Satan corrects Ralph on the pronunciation of Satan's name.  More filler, and hardly funny.  (Maybe this line is slightly "quotable," not not nearly as "quotable" as Vanellope's catchphrase "Sweet mother of monkey milk!" which WikiLubber edited out.)
  6. The next line had read, "Ralph: Got it. But here's the thing. [pause] I don't wanna be the bad guy anymore."  I took out the "Got it" because that was more filler in response to Satan correcting the pronunciation of his own name.  I took out the "But here's the thing" because that was merely Ralph's transition from the filler side-conversation between him and Satan to the point Ralph was trying to get at.  And I took out the pause because, without all that other filler, there's no reason the Wikiquote reader needs to see that Ralph may've paused.  Thus, I edited this line down to the essential:  "Ralph: I don't wanna be the bad guy anymore."
From there on out, I left the rest of this conversation intact, only making minor cosmetic changes such as adding the Oxford comma after "fire balls" and bringing the w:Ghosts (Pac-Man) link down from the portion I'd edited out to the portion that I had left intact.

It'd seemed to me—and still seems to me—that my edit to this discussion between the members of Bad Anon improved the article.  What I'd effectively done was distill the quote down to the elements that were meaningful to the story:

  1. I left in Ralph's declaration that he didn't want to be a bad guy.
  2. I left in the reactions of the other Bad Anon members, including Bison asking if Ralph was "going Turbo."
  3. I include Ralph's denial of "going Turbo" and his explanation.
  4. I include the other members of Bad Anon trying to console Ralph and help him with his feelings.
After all, that's the really important stuff from the conversation; that's the meaningful dialogue.

All I'd done in editing the discussion between the Bad Anon members was cut out the filler so that Wikiquote readers could more easily find the meaningful stuff they're looking for.  Even in a world without copyright law, I see this as an improvement to the article.  (This isn't Wikisource, after all.)

Now, perhaps there is some sort of reasonable objection to my Bad-Anon-members-discussion edit, and if there are any such reasonable objections, please do write out said objections here.  I shall leave WikiLubber's undoing-of-my-Bad-Anon-members-edit intact, with the hopes that, if there are reasonable objections, they will be shared here and discussed.  While I cannot, at present, personally conceive of any such objections, if said objections exist, I hope they can be stated here so that a civil and productive discussion can be had on the merits of re-truncating this particular bit of dialogue.

Respectfully yours,
allixpeeke (talk) 21:01, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I've truncated the discussion between King Candy and Ralph[edit]

Down in the Dialogue section, the conversation between King Candy and Ralph seemed to run rather long, making me worry that it might constitute a copyright violation.  So, I truncated it, removing most of the content from this conversation.

You can see my edit here.

I actually split the remainder it up into four sections.  (1) A couple lines about whether the throne room was pink or salmon.  (2) King Candy saying, "You game-jumped?  Ralph, you're not going Turbo, are you?"  (3) Ralph saying, "It's not my fault one of your Children of the Candy Corn stole my medal."  (4) A few lines about King Candy's "fungeon."

I then moved the Ralph line into Ralph's section since it was only a single line at this point and didn't belong in the dialogue section.

Likewise, I moved the King Candy line into King Candy's section since it was also only a single line at this point and therefore also didn't belong in the dialogue section.

In other words, I did not add any new content.  All I did was truncate a rather long piece of dialogue, leaving behind four very short chunks, two of which I then moved elsewhere.

Hopefully, this edit will not be controversial.  It certainly couldn't be controversial for copyright reasons, since I did not add any new content, but perhaps you may find this edit controversial for other reasons.  If you believe there is anything amiss about this edit, please feel free to discuss.

Cheers,
allixpeeke (talk) 18:23, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I've truncated the discussion between Ralph and Vanellope[edit]

Down in the Dialogue section, the conversation between Ralph and Vanellope seemed to run a long, making me worry that it might constitute a copyright violation.  So, I truncated it.

You can see my edit here.

What I left in was Vanellope making fun of the name Hero's Duty as I felt that that was the main reason for even having that particular quote on this page.

Feel free to discuss if you believe there is anything amiss about this edit.

Cheers,
allixpeeke (talk) 18:35, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I've truncated the discussion between Ralph and Felix[edit]

Down in the Dialogue section, the conversation between Ralph and Felix seemed to run long, making me worry that it might constitute a copyright violation.  So, I truncated it, removing most of the content from this conversation.

You can see my edit here.

I actually split the remainder it up into two sections.  (1) Felix saying, "And then…I met the most dynamite gal.  Oh, she gives me the honey glows somethin' awful.  But…she rebuffed my affections."  (2) Ralph explaining to Felix that he knows quite well what it feels like to be a criminal, being a "bad guy" as it were.

I then moved the Felix line into Felix's section since it was only a single line at this point and didn't belong in the dialogue section.

In other words, I did not add any new content.  All I did was truncate a long piece of dialogue, leaving behind two very short chunks, one of which I then moved elsewhere.

Hopefully, this edit will not be controversial.  It certainly couldn't be controversial for copyright reasons, since I did not add any new content, but perhaps you may find this edit controversial for other reasons.  If you believe there is anything amiss about this edit, please feel free to discuss.

Cheers,
allixpeeke (talk) 18:52, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I've truncated the discussion between King Candy/Turbo and Vanellope[edit]

Down in the Dialogue section, the conversation between King Candy/Turbo and Vanellope seemed to run rather long, making me worry that it might constitute a copyright violation.  So, I truncated it.

You can see my edit here.

What I left in was King Candy's admission that he was really Turbo as I felt that that was the important conveyance of this particular quote.

Feel free to discuss if you believe there is anything amiss about this edit.

Cheers,
Allixpeeke (talk) 19:07, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Extended quotes do not violate anything. Too many quotes does. WikiLubber (talk) 19:08, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
Dear WikiLubber,

Are you saying that I can quote every single word in the movie as long as it's all one, long, extended quote?  Because I'm pretty sure that that would be a copyright violation to quote every single word from the movie, and that it would be wrong to say that such a quote "do[es] not violate anything."

Now that you've undone all of my edits, we actually have many more words from the movie on this page than we had before you undid my edits.  In other words, a greater degree of copyrighted material is now available on this page than had been available before you undid my edits.

But, let's put all that aside for a second.  Even in a world without copyright law, I would still argue that my edits improved the article by distilling the list of quotes and focusing on the best bits of content, instead of allowing a bunch of filler to fill up the page.  By undoing my edits, this filler has returned.  By undoing my edits, readers ca now devour "gems" like this:

King Candy: Sour Bill, de-taffy-fy this monster so we can see what we're up against here!
Sour Bill: Mmkay.
[Sour Bill rips the taffy off of Ralph's head; Ralph howls in pain.]
King Candy: Milk my Duds! It's Wreck-It Ralph!
Ralph: Yeah. Who are you, the guy that makes the donuts?
King Candy: Hoo-hoo, please! No, I'm King Candy!
And great bits of dialogue like this:
King Candy: "Children of the candy corn"? Who -- [gasps] The glitch! The coin she used to buy her way into the race, that was your medal?
Ralph: She did what?! I need that back!
King Candy: Well, I'm afraid I can't help you, it's gone, you know. It's, it's nothing but code now! And it'll stay that way until someone wins the cup at the end of the race!
Ralph: Well, maybe I'll just have to have a little talk with the winner, then.
King Candy: [getting in Ralph's face] Is that a threat I smell? [recoiling] Ye-whoa! Beyond the halitosis you so obviously suffer from...
People everywhere will be clamouring to read:
Vanellope: What are you looking at?
Ralph: You're welcome, ya rotten little thief.
And this dialogue is sure to keep readers spellbound:
Vanellope: Enjoy your little tantrum, Diaper-Baby?
Ralph: Leave me alone.
Vanellope: Look, you want that medal, right? And I wanna race. So here's what I'm thinkin': You help me get a new kart - a real kart - and I'll win the race and get you back your medal!
Ralph: You want me to help you?
Vanellope: All you gotta do is break somethin' for me. C'mon, what do you say, friend? [extends her hand]
Ralph: We are not friends.
Vanellope: Aw, c'mon, pal! You son-of-a-gun! C'mon, buddy! Shake on it! C'mon, chumbo! Ralph, my man! M' main man! [seriously] ...Hey. My arm's getting tired. Do we have a deal or not?
Ralph: [groans, giving in] You better win. [shakes Vanellope's hand]
Sarcasm aside, do readers benefit from having to wade through this?:
[Ralph bursts through the wall of Felix's jail cell]
Ralph: Felix!
Felix: Ralph! [jumps up and hugs Ralph] I'm so glad to see you! [suddenly lets go] Wait. No, I'm not! What do you have to say for yourself?!
Ralph: I --
Felix: Wait! I don't want to hear it. I'm not talking to you.
Ralph: Okay. Don't talk. That's fine. [dumps out a can full of the broken go-kart] But you have to fix this go-kart for me, pronto.
Felix: I don't have to do boo!
Does anybody really want to read these lines?:
Vanellope: Knock it off!
[back at the finish line, Ralph and Felix are fighting off the Cybugs]
Felix: Ralph, look! [points to King Candy and Vanellope on the Jumbotron]
Ralph: Kid!
No offence intended, but I feel as though you didn't even bother looking to see what sort of edits I'd made, and whether or not they constituted an actual improvement to the article or not.  Even in a world without copyright law, I would see no reason for including any of those lines here on Wikiquote.  A lot of that is simply filler, and doesn't need to be here.  Inclusion of the filler actually makes it harder for readers to find the good quotes they seek, and, it would seem, the point of Wikiquote is to make it easier to find these good quotes.

On top of this, undoing my edits has other repercussions.  For example, I argued above that the Bad Guy Affirmation should be moved out of the ==Wreck-It Ralph== section and into its own section on the grounds that, although Ralph does say these words, they're not really his words; the words were written for the members of Bad Anon, and therefore should be located in it's own section, such as ==Bad Anon's "Bad Guy Affirmation"==.  As you can see, nobody made any replies above raising even a single objection to this move.  Yet, you undid every edit I made, thereby unilaterally deciding, without discussion, that the quote should be misleadingly placed in the ==Wreck-It Ralph== section.

There are other repercussions to your edit.  Ellipses should not have nine dots; they should have only three.  After my edits were completed, all ellipses were limited to three dots, and now that my edits have been undone, horrendous nine-dot ellipses have reappeared.  Moreover, my edits had replaced instances of three-periods-in-a-row (i.e., ...) with with individual ellipsis characters (i.e., ).  The undoing of my edits gets rid of proper ellipses and brings back the three-periods-in-a-row phenomenon.

Similarly, my edit had replaced the two-hyphens-in-a-row phenomenon (i.e., --) with proper m-dashes (i.e., ), and the undoing of my edit restores the subpar use of double-hyphens.

Little changes like mine make a page look really good.  For example, I changed this:

And if I ever see you here again, Wreck-It Ralph... hoo-hoo, I'll lock you in my Fungeon!
into this:
And if I ever see you here again, Wreck-It Ralph—hoo-hoo—I'll lock you in my fungeon!
I made this change because I saw no reason for an ellipsis (whether proper or three-periods-in-a-row) when the "hoo hoo" could simply be discerned as a break in the comment using m-dashes, and because I saw no good reason to capitalise fungeon.  I sincerely believe my alteration makes that line look much better.  But now that line has been reverted back to the former appearance.

I'd also changed this:

One more, one more - why did the hero flush the toilet? ...Say "Why?"
to this:
One more, one more: Why did the hero flush the toilet? Say "Why?"
In my estimation, the space-hyphen-space seemed wildly inappropriate, and the ellipsis wasn't quite necessary, either.  But with my edits undone, these oddities are back.

Here's another improvement I thought I'd made.  I took this:

And then... I GOT THROWN IN JAIL!
and turned it into this:
And then…I got thrown in jail!!
It seemed to me that the use of the caps-lock made the page look a bit cheap.  A double-exclamation-point is far more effective than the caps-lock.  Also the space after the ellipsis struck me as weird.  So I removed the space, replaced the three-periods-in-a-row with a proper ellipsis, decapitalised the sentence, and doubled the exclamation point.  Now those capital letters have returned, as well as that unbecoming space following the three-periods-in-a-row.

Let's use one more example.  Here's how one of Ralph's quotes appeared before my edits:

My name's Ralph, and I'm a bad guy. Uh, let's see...I'm 9 feet tall, I weigh 643 pounds, got a bit of a temper on me. My passion level's very near the surface, I guess, not gonna lie. Anyhoo, what else, uh... I'm a wrecker. I wreck things, professionally. I mean, I'm very good at what I do. Probably the best I know. Thing is, fixing's the name of the game. Literally. Fix-It Felix Jr. So yeah, naturally, the guy with the name Fix-It Felix is the good guy. He's nice enough as good guys go. Definitely fixes stuff really well. But, uh, if you got a magic hammer from your father, how hard can it be? If he was a regular contractor, carpenter guy, I guarantee you, you will not be able to fix the damage that I do as quickly. When Felix does a good job, he gets a medal. But, are there medals for wrecking stuff really well? To that, I say, ha! And no, there aren't. For thirty years I have been doing this, and I have seen a lot of other games come and go. It's sad. Think about those guys at Asteroids? Boom, gone. Centipede? Who knows where that guy is, you know? Look, a steady arcade gig is nothing to sneeze at, I'm very lucky. It's just, I gotta say, it becomes kinda hard to love your job when no one seems to like you for doing it.
Notice the improper apostrophe in levels.  Notice the unbecoming period after the ellipsis.

I changed this to read as follows:

My name's Ralph, and I'm a bad guy.  Uh, let's see…I'm 9 feet tall, I weigh 643 pounds, got a bit of a temper on me.  My passion levels very near the surface, I guess—not gonna lie.  Anywho, what else, uh…I'm a wrecker.  I wreck things, professionally.  I mean, I'm very good at what I do.  Probably the best I know.  Thing is, fixing's the name of the game.  Literally.  Fix-It Felix Jr.  So yeah, naturally, the guy with the name Fix-It Felix is the good guy.  He's nice enough as good guys go.  Definitely fixes stuff really well.  But, uh, if you got a magic hammer from your father, how hard can it be?  If he was a regular contractor, carpenter guy, I guarantee you, you will not be able to fix the damage that I do as quickly.  When Felix does a good job, he gets a medal.  But, are there medals for wrecking stuff really well?  To that, I say, "Ha!" and, "No, there aren't."  For thirty years I have been doing this, and I have seen a lot of other games come and go.  It's sad.  Think about those guys at Asteroids?  Boom, gone.  Centipede?  Who knows where that guy is, you know?  Look, a steady arcade gig is nothing to sneeze at, I'm very lucky.  It's just, I gotta say, it becomes kinda hard to love your job when no one seems to like you for doing it.
I thought this revision improved the appearance of the quote, but now the quote is back to its former apparition, improper apostrophe and all.

I really didn't see anything controversial at all about my edits.  This edit, in particular, seemed totally uncontroversial.  When WikiLubber changed "dreams of becoming a hero" to "dreams of becoming a 'o," I am changed it back to read "hero."  But, when WikiLubber undid my edits, he or she again replaced "hero" with "'o."  This can either mean that WikiLubber really did not look at my edits to see whether or not there was value to them before undoing them, or he/she actually preferred for the opening line to say that Ralph dreamed of becoming "a 'o."

For all these reasons, I hereby encourage WikiLubber to consider undoing her/his own edit, thereby restoring the article to the way it appeared after I made my series of edits.

Respectfully yours,
allixpeeke (talk) 23:07, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

P.S.: I encourage WikiLubber to also consider my Motion to re-add a quote from the song "Wreck-It, Wreck-It Ralph" by Buckner & Garcia.  (If it truly is a matter of there simply being "too many" quotes on this page, then I would recommend we get rid of the exchange between Vanellope and King Candy so as to make room for the lyrics.)  Cheers.