Wikiquote talk:Quote of the day/January 28, 2014

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José Martí óleo Hermann Norman 1891.jpg  
I am a sincere man
from where the palm tree grows,
and before I die I wish
to pour forth the verses from my soul.


~ José Martí, Simple Verses  (1891) ~

  Statue of Jose Marti and Elian Gonzales.jpg

Kalki, do you think this is aesthetically acceptable? ~ DanielTom (talk) 00:03, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I think it is acceptable but I very much prefer the larger format with more images which indicate or evoke much more of the essences and expressions of Martí and his works, and his influence not only on Cuban and Spanish speaking culture, but as a widely appreciated poet, and which might catch more of the interest or curiosity of those unfamiliar with him. ~ Kalki·· 00:11, 28 January 2014 (UTC) + tweaks
I just removed the emblem as the most aesthetically divergent element of the composition I had thrown together — I think that is a much better and somewhat simpler whole. ~ Kalki·· 00:31, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
Every day the main page presents large pictures, even if different, so I'm not sure they really do "catch more" the interest of readers. I feel that a better way of bringing attention to the quote of the day would be to make the quote itself—not the pictures—larger, as suggested above. A good quote always speaks, and should speak, for itself. I also tend to agree when others say that Wikiquote's strongest point, and what differentiates it from other websites, is that it presents sources for the quotes. I would like to see this reflected on the main page, and as the simple format exemplified here apparently shows that it is easy to present the sources along with the quotes, I am a bit surprised that you do not share the same wish. ~ DanielTom (talk) 00:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
I actually just noticed you had added more to this page just a short while ago, and believe that I was simply too caught up in other things to notice it earlier. I will simply state we all have difference of stylistic preferences, and though I fully recognize that the options I come up with can often be improved in various ways, I believe, and have believed since my very early childhood, the more one knows, the more one can know — and the more the potential ways of stimulating interest and curiosity one is free to use, the more likely it can be that one will hit upon effective and appealing presentations of ideas. Sometimes I can whip up things rather quickly in a very short time — and sometimes it can take me hours of considerations of options, even after I find a quotation or range of quotations to use for a day; but I much prefer having the freedom to take such time, than setting any arbitrary constraints on what needs to be done. And as to sourcing — I fully accept the importance of it on author pages and theme pages — but I definitely do not prefer it on the presentations of the main page here — and certainly would not wish it to become mandated, any more than citations of statements are mandated on the main page of Wikipedia: the citations on the linked pages are usually accepted as quite sufficient. ~ Kalki·· 15:00, 29 January 2014 (UTC) + tweak
I think you are wrong on this one, Kalki. I find myself ever more in agreement with someone who said—I can't remember who—that this is Wikiquote, not Wikipictures. And on the main page the pictures do overshadow the quote, and this is apparently something you cannot recognize. I'm sorry, but we need more eyes, and more opinions. Needless to say, the sources of quotes are much more important, and integral, to the quote, than references are on Wikipedia. I do not wish to impose anything on you, but perhaps you should embrace democracy and be willing to hear, and perhaps accommodate, other people's opinions and preferences on this—should they prove unanimous, that is. ~ DanielTom (talk) 15:28, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
I am usually quite willing to listen to other people's opinions on many things, but where I differ from many is that I actually genuinely and profoundly abhor the innate reduction of options and the potentials to indicate diverse opinions that others all too often do seek to find ways to impose, whether through the mechanisms of overtly authoritarian systems, or even, sometimes, quite unfortunately, through the mechanisms of democracies. I know that not all can understand my perspectives on these things, which is one of the reasons I am often so patient with others who differ with me, and yet sometimes do exhibit impatience with those who believe no one should differ with them. I hope to indicate and extensively reveal many of the reasons I have very different perspectives on many things in the months ahead — and I certainly do not expect everyone to immediately agree with me on many things, nor to eventually agree with me in all things — but due to the efforts of many elsewhere, and at least a few here, I do actually expect a far greater harmony of better informed and more knowledgeable ranges of opinions will exist here and many other significant places, within the coming years. I am one who ever seeks to promote exploration of many diverse views, so that one can have a much broader awareness and appreciation of how and why many diverse views develop, and of those which are generally helpful or detrimental in various ranges of circumstances. Just a few hours ago, I myself clarified to my own mind some of the ways I will likely be engaged in doing so in the coming year, and I look forward to discussing a wide range of profoundly important matters at various places in the months ahead. Even when I do happen to be at my computer, I do not expect to always have as much time available to do things here as I currently do, so I am currently endeavoring to prioritize some of the many pages I wish to add or work on in coming days and weeks, and as I also have quite a few other things to attend to — I will probably get back to that and to them, for now. Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 16:02, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Okay. Take the issue, should sources be presented along with the quotes on the main page? I say "yes", you say "no". It really is this simple, a matter of personal preference. There are only these two choices, and it's no use framing the debate as if it was liberty vs. constraints, as each of us has to decide which of these two options we prefer. Saying that the preference to which you personally oppose constitutes a "reduction of options" is clearly a red herring, even if the consensus was that the sources should be presented. There would perhaps be a reduction of options if you occasionally opted in and out of presenting sources, but your only choice has been to never present sources. Shouldn't others be allowed to weigh in on whether this was the right choice for Wikiquote? ~ DanielTom (talk) 16:35, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
I believe that everyone has a right to weigh in so much as they can about anything they wish to, within the limits of proper liberties within any forms of societies. I also know that what continually is encountered in many debates and disagreements is insistence to seek to frame debates or options ONLY in such terms or conditions as seem favorable to one side or the other. There are MANY ways I could do so, and MANY ways you and others could do so, but I generally recognize the futility of entering into such debates where many of the options or potentials are artificially constrained or ignored by various processes — and potentials are not allowed to grow or diminish in a more natural form. I also know that, quite sadly, hatreds, dislikes, fears or mistrusts can often can indeed often motivate people to various forms of action to suppress options in various ways, more than the more difficult processes of loving construction and genuinely profound respect for many of the potentials and inclinations of others, especially those most involved in doing the often tedious work which others clearly know can be contentious and dissatisfying, and make one a target of various diverse forms of criticism, from many people, for many reasons. I know not everyone will be able to do so, but I hope you perceive some of what I am doing here, and the way I am stating some points, and also what you are doing here — and that we can agree to disagree on some issues, at least for a time. All too many are those who would seek to find reasons to further divide or constrain others, in often unnatural ways, if they perceive some opportunities to do so. I hope that with time and considerations we can indeed at least come to a greater harmony of our differing opinions in the future. Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 17:04, 29 January 2014 (UTC) + tweaks


By way of comparison, I rather like the use of images in the Main Page layout at the Polish Wikiquote (which recently surpassed the original English edition in having the greatest number of articles), though they also fail to include citations on the main page. I completely agree with the proposition that a good quote speaks for itself, and that the focus should be on the quote. ~ Ningauble (talk) 14:01, 1 February 2014 (UTC)