Wikiquote:Village pump

From Wikiquote
(Redirected from WQ:Village Pump)
Jump to: navigation, search
Create a new topic


Wikiquote discussion pages (edit) see also: requests
Village pump
comment | history | archive
General policy discussions and proposals, requests for permissions and major announcements.
Reference desk
comment | history | archive
Questions and discussions about specific quotes.
All Wikiquote: namespace discussions 1 2 3 4 5 - All discussion pages 1 2 3 4 5


Archive
Archives

Welcome, newcomers and baffled oldtimers! If you have a question about Wikiquote and how it works, please click the link above "create a new topic", and then you can place your submission at the bottom of the list, and someone will attempt to answer it for you. (If you have a question about who said what, go to the reference desk instead.)

Before asking a question, check if it's answered by the Wikiquote:FAQ or other pages linked from Wikiquote:Help. Latest news on the project would be available at Wikiquote:Community portal and Wikiquote:Announcements.

Before answering a newcomer's question abruptly, consider rereading Please do not bite the newcomers.

Questions and answers will not remain on this page indefinitely (otherwise it would very soon become too long to be editable). After a period of time with no further activity, information will be moved to other relevant sections of Wikiquote, (such as the FAQ pages) or placed in one of the village pump archives if it is of general interest, or deleted. Please consider dating and titling your discussions so as to facilitate this.



Are any pages considered complete and is wikiquote an endless argument over the most meaningful arbitrary samples?[edit]

I was wondering if there were any pages where every known quotation from an individual has been added already, and whether task forces for particular topics of interest might be of use in moving Wikiquote closer to completion. I find it odd that there's a limited number of quotations to add from ancient Greek philosophers, yet their pages continue to grow over the years with seemingly no end in sight despite multiple people working on them. New individuals will continue to cite old texts, however I rarely see any evidence quotes have actually been quoted by someone other than the translator. CensoredScribe (talk) 19:10, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

@CensoredScribe: "I rarely see any evidence quotes have actually been quoted by someone other than the translator." Consider the following quotation:

  • Οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
    φύλλα τὰ μέν τ' ἄνεμος χαμάδις χέει, ἄλλα δέ θ' ὕλη
    τηλεθόωσα φύει, ἔαρος δ' ἐπιγίγνεται ὥρη·
    ὣς ἀνδρῶν γενεὴ ἣ μὲν φύει ἣ δ' ἀπολήγει.
    • As the generation of leaves, so is that of mankind:
      some leaves the wind scatters earthwards, but the fertile
      woodland grows others as spring returns in season.
      So with men: one generation grows, while another dies.
    • Homer, Iliad (c. 750 BC), Book VI, lines 146–149 (as translated by Peter Green)

Although this is one of the most famous and widely-cited quotations from the Iliad, Google returns only 1 result for "As the generation of leaves, so is that of mankind" (with quotation marks). Of course it all depends on which translation you use. (Here are a few others: Pope's "Like leaves on trees the race of man is found" – 8 140 results; Butler's "Men come and go as leaves year by year upon the trees" – 1 210 results; Rieu's "Men in their generations are like the leaves of the trees" – 993 results; Lattimore's "As is the generation of leaves, so is that of humanity" – 2 230 results; Fitzgerald's "Very like leaves upon this earth are the generations of men" – 144 results; Fagles's "Like the generations of leaves, the lives of mortal men" – 4 320 results; .....) I'll let you figure out the rest. ~ DanielTom (talk) 20:07, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Why do you not add any quotes, about the Iliad, like commentary from well known professors analyzing it? You currently have just two that mention it specifically from Northrop Frye and Voltaire, are those seriously the only two notable commentaries that have been written on it? Also, are you close to being done with adding quotes to the page for the Iliad yet and how many of those thousands of google search results you think are links to the blogs from unpublished unknowns that are completely worthless here? Including citations for every academic piece of writing on the Iliad would be exhausting but is the sort of thing researchers do. The page currently indicates that no one who doesn't translate Homer has ever actually recited a passage of his before, when like the google search results, there are thousands. I think showing a particular passage has been cited once or twice would be a nice objective way of showing it's wide spread value to society and better represents the consensus of academia on the importance of particular passages. I appreciate you having presented the number of google search results for each iteration, that information does illustrate the general level of continuing popularity of a particular translation for a particular passage. CensoredScribe (talk) 22:00, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Let's look at the Frye quotation you mentioned:

  • It is hardly possible to overestimate the importance for Western Literature of the Iliad's demonstration that the fall of an enemy, no less than of a friend or leader, is tragic and not comic. With the Iliad, once for all, an objective and disinterested element enters into the poet's vision of human life. Without this element, poetry is merely instrumental to various social aims, to propaganda, to amusement, to devotion, to instruction: with it, it acquires the authority that since the Iliad it has never lost, an authority based, like the authority of science, on the vision of nature as an impersonal order.

This insight into Homer's mind, and into the purpose of poetry itself, is widely quoted and of interest even to those who have never read the Iliad. Per Wikiquote:Wikiquote, "quotations the essence of wisdom refined to a handful of well-chosen words." I don't expect there to be many more quotations about the Iliad that fit this definition, but of course I can't be sure. Maybe there are. (It is said of Virgil that, in writing the Aeneid, "lest anything should impede his momentum, he would let certain things pass unfinished; others he propped up, as it were, with lightweight verses, joking that they were placed there as struts, to hold up the edifice until the solid columns arrived." Wikiquote articles are constructed in a similar fashion, the way I see it.) This is a collaborative project that will never be "complete". ~ DanielTom (talk) 23:10, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

It's true that as a whole Wikiquote will never be complete, and historical figures continue to have material written on them, however given the abundance of material written on the subject the page seems rather lacking, it could really use improvement from the inclusion of contemporary experts opinions. Northorp Frie died in 1991, what living authors writings on Homer would you recommend?
Also, do you think William Godwin had anything interesting to say about Virgil, perhaps you've had time to read his entry in Lives of the Necromancers and found a suitable selection to add. CensoredScribe (talk) 05:13, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
No. I'm not interested in the stupid medieval traditions about Virgil being a magician or a necromancer. Needless to say, if you can find a "quotable" (i.e. not too concerned with particulars – which rules out almost the entire Lives of the Necromancers – and preferably widely-quoted) quotation about Virgil, that is notable and memorable, even if it is stupid, do feel free to add it. ~ DanielTom (talk) 11:18, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
Excluding medieval traditions would result in most of the quotes on religious figures with miracles attributed to them being removed from Wikiquote, and you continue to avoid the question of what living authority do you recommend on Homer, perhaps because you don't know of any, nor are you interested in what any of the living have to say on the subject. Also you just said yourself it's a tradition, indicating it's been repeated in more than one source, so presumably if I just found the source Godwin used, you could have to concede that source has been quoted before, at least the once. Now define widely quoted, how many times one must be quoted to be widely quoted (according to you) and how it is someones words can start a tradition without them being widely quoted. CensoredScribe (talk) 18:30, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
According to me, if it is quoted (i.e. presented as a memorable or insightful quote, not a long excerpt) in any reasonably-notable (e.g. book) secondary source (just one is enough) about Virgil, you are welcome to add it to Virgil#Quotes about Virgil. ~ DanielTom (talk) 18:45, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
Thank you Daniel Tom, the just one secondary source statement is incredibly helpful. Now if you would just mind answering if there is a contemporary living academic source you are aware of who has been widely quoted on Homer, I would like to know who would be the ideal person to interview. CensoredScribe (talk) 19:45, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
I don't know of any "living authority" on Homer. But I'm no expert on the subject. "the ideal person to interview"? There are some videos on YouTube of Stanley Lombardo reading from his translations of the Iliad and the Odyssey which you may want to check out. (Here's the famous recognition scene between Odysseus and Penelope.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 19:54, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Using quotations for intros and racism in the United States.[edit]

The intro right now for the page Racism in the United States is a single sentence that suggests it started in the 19th century. Daniel Tom, ever constructive, thought it would be in the best interest of wikiquote to revert my edit rather than fix it or make their own improvements to the factual accuracy of the description. They also noted I didn't attribute a quotation in the intro which brings up the question of whether or not a quotation can be used in the intro, as Wikipedia often uses them in it's opening descriptions on a subject. I was also also told, this was POV pushing for the quoted section saying there are lingering socio economic effects. CensoredScribe (talk) 17:45, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree that the intro was a bit lacking (so I've expanded it, using the intro from Wikipedia). I would not recommend using a quote in an intro, instead we usually just stick to factual information describing the page's subject. ~ UDScott (talk) 00:18, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

How to add Today in Science quotes without risking the unprecedented specter of a copyright violation lawsuit against the English Wikiquote.[edit]

Currently there are a number of quotes on the pages for Organic chemistry, Botany, Chemistry, Astronomy, Machines, Technology, Nuclear weapons, Nuclear war, Nuclear power]], Wind, Geology History of Science and Science taken from Today in Science History; and thought it better to start a separate thread on the subject for those uninterested in wading through a lengthy conservation with Daniel Tom on my general conduct as an editor to address a larger issue. If it's simply a matter of reformatting the citations that can be done, but if all of the quotes Today in Science History has collected are off limits, or if using only 10 of them is acceptable, I would like to know why that is and how Wikiquote can ever hope to compete with larger preexisting collections of sourced quotations. CensoredScribe (talk) 18:23, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

You can't just dump entire pages from "Today in Science History" on Wikiquote. And, as I said, quote selection and formatting is not the only concern, because you also copied the references word-for-word without double-checking them and without attribution. If you are not double-checking (confirming) the quotations and references (one by one), the least you can do is add "as reported in [Today in Science History link]" to the citation. ~ DanielTom (talk) 20:27, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

Would someone like to collaborate on a page, or does no one like me that much or care about teamwork?[edit]

I would be willing to assist anyone with working collaboratively on any task at Wikiquote and would like to coordinate efforts through talk page discussions for those willing to speak with me, however I'm afraid no one will offer to do so I've been accused of medical conditions I don't have. It's been months since anyone thanked me for any edit despite the fact I've added quite a bit to major articles, and those few acknowledgements that I'm not a complete failure almost always came from Peter1C or in the very beginning from Kalki. I gather I am not welcome here, as at no point did an administrator say calling someone a mentally damaged five year old was unbecoming of this site, yet I was alleged of ageism and blocked by Kalki. Perhaps if I had done what Daniel Tom did and said I think user I bully has X disease...but than I realized they are just a troll so I'm not actually accusing them of that because if I did that I would be blocked, I'm just throwing it out there for others to latch onto.
Anyways, I'm leaving; if you would like to say your goodbyes or ask me to stay and help out with something, I would appreciate it. I would say this has been fun but being insulted constantly is not remotely pleasant and I could have learned these quotes without adding them and being ridiculed for being lazy by people refuse to work together constructively on anything, even a user talkpage. CensoredScribe (talk) 19:45, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

becoming an administrator[edit]

All of the articles that talk about becoming an administrator say you must have been an editor for a while. This is a vague term. What is meant by "a while"?Just A Regular New Yorker (talk) 02:34, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Usually a period of regular activities over at least a few months are deemed appropriate before serious consideration for administrator positions are initiated. ~ Kalki·· 02:44, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
Would two years normally be enough time? Also, does being an administrator on another wiki or having a questionable sense of taste in regards to page decoration factor in at all? It would be great if there was a more thorough guide to becoming an administrator, listing do's and don'ts. CensoredScribe (talk) 18:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Presentation copyright[edit]

Does presentation copyright prevent a quote from being used if it is already written on another online source?Just A Regular New Yorker (talk) 02:37, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

No, but it means that generally presentations or listings of quotes should not be copied in bulk from currently copyrighted sources, and formatting of citations of any individual quotes should be adapted to general practices here, and use of any distinctive commentaries or distinctive formatting of citations, sections or pages used elsewhere rigorously avoided. The presentation of entire listings used elsewhere, or extensive portions of them in particular forms, should definitely be avoided. ~ Kalki·· 02:58, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
Bulk is a bit vague, is there a rough number for how many is too many? It also seems to come off a bit as being finders keepers in regards to laying claim to famous quotations that are in the public domain, like laying claim to the moon. Mass copying of quotes from Today in Science History has been discouraged, while Real Buddha Quotes seems to be acceptable, with the distinction seemingly arbitrary. I imagine having just said that, this will be goodbye Buddha quotes. CensoredScribe (talk) 18:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Years[edit]

Is there a concept of creating articles featuring quotes about a certain year? If so is it for any years or only notable years in history?Just A Regular New Yorker (talk) 11:13, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

I would prefer a sortable table like for advertising slogans, but we need certain kind of consensus to unify the future format.--Jusjih (talk) 04:28, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Participate in Dispute Resolution Focus Group[edit]

The Harvard Negotiation & Mediation Clinical Program is working with the Wikimedia Foundation to help communities develop tools to resolve disputes. You are invited to participate in a focus group aimed at identifying needs and developing possible solutions through collaborative design thinking.

If you are interested in participating, please add your name to the signup list on the Meta-Wiki page.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to learn from the Wikimedia community. We value all of your opinions and look forward to hearing from you. JosephNegotiation (talk) 22:54, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

One question, are you interested in only opinions and experiences from Wikipedia and it's satellite projects like Wikiquote, or from any that use media wiki software, such as Rational Wiki, Encyclopedia Dramatica and fandom wikis? CensoredScribe (talk) 18:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

The Community Wishlist Survey 2017[edit]

Hey everyone,

The Community Wishlist Survey is the process when the Wikimedia communities decide what the Wikimedia Foundation Community Tech should work on over the next year.

The Community Tech team is focused on tools for experienced Wikimedia editors. You can post technical proposals from now until November 20. The communities will vote on the proposals between November 28 and December 12. You can read more on the 2017 wishlist survey page. /Johan (WMF) (talk) 20:19, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Username[edit]

Is there any way to change your username?Just A Regular New Yorker (talk) 02:08, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

@Just A Regular New Yorker: See m:Changing username. —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:36, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I haven't dealt with these in years, and name changes are now done only by inter-wiki stewards, and not by officials of individual wikis. Check things out at meta:Steward requests/Username changes on Meta-wiki. ~ Kalki·· 02:44, 8 November 2017 (UTC) // oops — didn't notice this had already been answered. So it goes…

Changes to the global ban policy[edit]

Hello. Some changes to the community global ban policy have been proposed. Your comments are welcome at m:Requests for comment/Improvement of global ban policy. Please translate this message to your language, if needed. Cordially. Matiia (Matiia) 00:34, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Incels[edit]

Is it really appropriate to categorize by Category:Male incels and Category:Female incels? I don't think so. --Superchilum (talk) 08:58, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

No. Admin, please delete. —Justin (koavf)TCM 17:16, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes check.svgY Done ~ UDScott (talk) 17:25, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

es:Plantilla:Cita destacada[edit]

It would be cool if we could import this template into English Wikiquote. ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:45, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

@DanielTom: Well, you can! It's all an open license. —Justin (koavf)TCM 02:49, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

how to place pictures on Wikipedia on Wikiquote[edit]

Happily now I know how to place a picture of Wiki-Commons on Wikiquote. But many times I can not find a picture of a modern artist on Wiki-Commons, but I can find some on Wikipedia. How can I use these pictures from Wikipedia, to place them on Wikiquote

I like to place more pictures on the Wikiquote page of Abstract Expresssionism, for instance: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abstract_expressionism. And there are some good pictures on Wikipedia to use, like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%27Boon%27_oil_on_canvas_painting_by_James_Brooks,_1957,_Tate_Gallery.jpg#/media/File:%27Boon%27_oil_on_canvas_painting_by_James_Brooks,_1957,_Tate_Gallery.jpg

How do I handle this. Can somebody please describe the steps for me? FotoDutch (talk)

You can't, because those images are protected by copyright. Wikipedia allows "fair use" images, Wikiquote doesn't. ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:01, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
Strange that there are different levels of copyright for one Wiki.FotoDutch (talk)
@FotoDutch: I agree that it can be confusing and each language edition can choose their own local policy. Compare w:en:A Love Supreme with w:es:A Love Supreme--only the English one has an album cover (tho the other photos could be added to Spanish version). —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:32, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Can an anonymous editor create a new page?[edit]

Hi, This seems like a friendly place, and I love quotes. But I am not sure how much time I have to contribute, so I was wondering if it makes sense to become a user? Since I think I would like to ultimately create a new page, the question is, will I have to be a confirmed user before I can do that, like on regular Wikipedia, or are things more lenient here? Thanks. 196.251.250.128 11:44, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

If you already have a Wikipedia account, then you have one here, too--it seems like you're familiar with that site. I'd definitely recommend making an account and we hope you'll stay here. All users can create new pages. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:09, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

New print to pdf feature for mobile web readers[edit]

CKoerner (WMF) (talk) 22:07, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Profanity[edit]

What is Wikiquote's policy on profanity? Do we quote it as is, or replace with with symbols(###,***,etc)?Just A Regular New Yorker (talk) 00:11, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

We quote the provided words; there is no censorship of the provided words here. ~ Kalki·· 02:12, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

QOTD image too big, on the wrong side[edit]

Screenshot of the Main Page today. Shouldn't the QOTD image be smaller, and on the left?

In my opinion the QOTD image should be smaller, and on the left. Agree/Disagree?

Currently the size of the Quote of the Day image simply dwarfs the quote of the day itself.

(Ningauble actually used to reduce the size of the Quote of the Day images – with the edit summary "reduce excessive whitespace", some 40 times –, but Kalki still persists, which is why I'm asking for community input.)

Thanks ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:40, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

  • Yes, think the image should be smaller. Image size was discussed several times but Kalki nevertheless has indeed persisted. (I notice that, since it was pointed out today, UDScott quietly reduced the size of today's image.[1])
I do not think it is a big deal for the image to be on the right when it is a portrait facing left. The convention of having the image face toward the text seems sensible enough. It is a much larger problem that the QOTD box design overwhelms practically everything above the fold of the Main Page. ~ Ningauble (talk) 17:26, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes, I agree - sorry for being quiet (I intended to respond here, but after I reduced the size a bit, I was called away from my computer until now). ~ UDScott (talk) 20:19, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Mobile version of “quote of the day”[edit]

Did anyone else notice what today’s (November 27, 2017) “quote of the day” looks like on the mobile website? The picture on the right is abnormally small and it was nearly impossible to tell it was a photo from the small screen of a mobile device. In general, I find that sometimes things don’t convert well from desktop to mobile. I don’t know enough about editing Wikiquote to fix the problem but I am trying to bring this to the attention of one who does.Just A Regular New Yorker (talk) 01:38, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

User Page Protection[edit]

Is there any way to get a user page protected? My user page has been vandalized by a user claiming that I am a kitten. This is not a joke. What can I do to prevent this from occurring again? Just A Regular New Yorker (talk) 02:36, 11 December 2017 (UTC)