Talk:Vladimir Putin

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Vladimir Putin page.


Archives: /Archive 1

Unsourced[edit]

  • [Russians and Americans] have different visions of life. That's why it's very difficult to understand each other. But it's still possible.
  • First, we are working hard now on creating a genuine multiparty system. {...} Second, we are redistributing powers between the federal, regional and municipal authorities.
  • Russia's modern foreign policy is based on the principles of pragmatism, predictability and the supremacy of international law.

Article and talk page cleanup[edit]

I have archived the old version of this talk page because it was so badly constructed that it was actively harmful to the purpose of clear discussion on improving this article.

  • The transfer of material from Wikipedia was done improperly, not only confusing the purpose of a talk page with a quote page, but also violating the GFDL license of al Wikimedia material by failing to mention the article from which it was copied or to include the edit history from the article.
  • Several editors then made good-faith efforts to work on the article by inserting discussion into the copied quotes, obscuring any distinction between copied quote material and discussions.
  • Sceptre (Will) tried to fix the problem by replacing what he probably thought was an improper and unnecessary list of quotes (having been copied into the article) with the proper WP article edit history, although the source article (presumably w:Vladimir Putin) still was not explicitly cited.
  • Since there was inserted discussion that was lost with Will's edit, an anonymous editor then restored both the quotes and the discussion, leaving the page even harder to decipher (by usual wiki standards) than before.

Since then, discussion continued to be mixed into the quotes. On top of this problem, the article itself is badly formatted, and no effort seems to have been taken by editors here in the 9 months since the article was tagged for cleanup.

This situation was bad enough for any Wikiquote article, but even worse for an article on such a famous and controversial subject. To try to ensure that future work on this article is done using Wikiquote practices, I've done the following:

  • Reformatted the quotes in the article to follow basic Wikiquote standards, more or less. (More cleanup is still needed, like fixing source lines.) Please see Wikiquote:Templates/People for the basic article formatting information.
  • Moved all Putin quotes under "Unsourced" until each quote has a confirmed source that actually contains the quoted material. (My spot checking suggested that this was not the case for some "sourced" quotes.) The meaning of "Sourced" in Wikiquote is a fully cited, published document from a reliable source (as defined by Wikipedia) that includes the quote exactly as given. Bare links are not acceptable, as they often break and they disguise the nature of the document, which is often unreliable in wiki terms. Sources should have specific information, like authors, dates, article or web-page titles, and publishers. This allows readers to evaluate for themselves potential problems with the source, and provides information necessary to find alternative sources if the original one is no longer available.
  • Removed a considerable amount of non-quote material. Quotes should consist of the following parts, not all of which are required:
    1. The exact quote, without surrounding quote marks. The original language is preferred.
    2. English translation, if the original is not English.
    3. An optional, BRIEF context, typically only used when the quote contains references that are not specific. Context lines should not be treated as an opportunity to write discourses on or analyses of the quote. This is "original research", which is just as bad here as on Wikipedia.
    4. Source line, including specific information to allow editors to find alternate sources if necessary. Templates currently available for formatting these sources are listed at Category:Citation templates. They are not mandatory, but they greatly help in trying to specify and organize the desired information. In general, do not use Wikipedia's "ref" footnoting.
  • Archived the old talk page. PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THE ARCHIVE. If you wish to continue discussions from that page, please copy whatever excerpt you may need to make your point (see my example below). I recommend that not copying any headings from that page that represent the old article's topics, but to instead use headings that concisely summarize the specific question or point you're posting. Each heading on a talk page should represent a separate discussion topic. (That's the main reason it's a very bad idea to copy article material to talk pages without some format changes.)
  • Added a {{Talkheader}} tag to provide this page with information that editors unfamiliar with wiki editing might find useful.

If you have any questions about what I've done or what I recommend, feel free to ask them in this topic or on my talk page. Thank you. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 05:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Kushat' question; quote analysis[edit]

BansheeVTS posted the following to the archived talk page:

The assertion that "kushat'" - to eat, or literally to bite, can only be used for children seems wrong - kushat' is far commoner than "est'" in an informal setting. Is there any reason to keep things the way they are without any explanation of this rendering of the term in the present article?
--BansheeVTS 9:19, 13 October 2007

This referred to a huge discussion that followed this quote from the article:

Their [US] defense budget in absolute figures is almost 25 times bigger than Russia's. This is what in defense is referred to as "their home — their fortress". And good on them, I say. Well done!
But this means that we also need to build our home and make it strong and well protected. We see, after all, what is going on in the world.
The Comrade Wolf knows who to eat, as the saying goes. It knows who to eat and is not about to listen to anyone, it seems.

The discussion began with:

The last two highlighted phrases in Russian are "Товарищ Волк знает кого кушать. Кушает и никого не слушает." (Romanization: "Tovarish volk znaet kogo kushat'. Kushaet i nikogo ne slushaet.").

I deleted the entire discussion because such analysis is original research and does not belong in a Wikiquote article. Wikiquote's purpose is to collect interesting quotes, not analyses of such quotes. In the very rare case that a quote is interesting because of an analysis of its complexity, such an analysis might arguably be included if it itself has been published, and the source provided. But expect an uphill battle to justify such material. Quote analyses are the job of an editorial board, and Wikiquote does not have any editoral board but us, the editors. To date, the usual response to complex quotes that require analyses is to delete them as unsuitable for a collection of powerful and succinct statements, mainly to avoid distracting from the raw quote material which is the raison d'être of Wikiquote. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 05:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Please delete or trim speeches[edit]

Wikiquote does not collective substantial portions of speeches. Quotes should be pithy — short and full of meaning. Anything that cannot be said in a short paragraph or less is rarely considered good Wikiquote material, and anything more than a sentence or two should be examined carefully to see if it's possible to extract its essence from a portion of the text. There are several "quotes" here that are more like speeches. I ask the regular editors to pull out a central concept or two from them instead of quoting the entire long passage, so that the point is clear. If there is no succinct, memorable core quote, such speeches should probably be deleted. We aren't trying to archive long discourses, but rather to feature pithy turns of phrase. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 06:00, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


"" * Larry King: Let's get to the part that may not have been enjoyable. What can — what happened? You tell me. What happened with the submarine?

     Vladimir Putin: [through interpreter] It sank.""

OWNED. How many man-points did Putin earn for that remark? Goddamnit, when I grow up I want to be like him, but with hair.

--217.127.191.232 14:33, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Where is that quote where Putin responds to Hilary Clinton by saying something like "a president should at least have a brain"?