Talk:Armenian genocide

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Armenian genocide page.


This seperate section is a great idea. I can see it comprising a list of a great many quotes before too long. Is there a provision for their organization - or do they just get listed? --THOTH 02:26, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I removed these following two alleged quotes attributed to Ambassador Morganthau.

  • "...The domestic situation was deplorable: all over Turkey thousands of the populace were daily dying of starvation; practically all able-bodied men had been taken into the army, so that only a few were left to till the fields; the criminal requisitions had almost destroyed all business; the treasury was in a more exhausted state than normally, for the closing of the Dardanelles and the blockading of the Mediterranean ports had stopped all imports and customs dues..."
    • Henry Morganthau, U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, Ambassador Morgenthau's Story
  • "...About a million families were left without breadwinners, all of them in a condition of extreme destitution. The Turkish Government paid its soldiers 25 cents a month, and gave the families a separation allowance of $1.20 a month. As a result thousands were dying from lack of food and many more were enfeebled by malnutrition; I believe that the empire has lost a quarter of its Turkish population since the war started."
    • Henry Morganthau, U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, Ambassador Morgenthau's Story

First I could not find them in the text of his book - and secondly I don't think that they are directly concerning the Armenian Genocide - certainly there are more appropriate quotes from him. Lastly I expanded the first quote to put it in its proper context. --THOTH 21:51, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned up the section by eliminating the irrelevant bit from Talaat Pasha which really has no place here and was just distracting. Also a comment was inserted claiming that the Armenian Genocide was hersay - which - if one reads the quotes here - should be clear that it is not. So I removed this (unsigned) comment as well. --THOTH 02:02, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

cleanup[edit]

I added the cleanup tag to this page because it has no clear organization, and I believe that oganization by the name of the author would probably be best in this case. It also has other formatting inconsistencies. I encourage the use of bolding for significant passages on pages, but I believe emphasized passages should generally be clear statements, and not merely a few words. Though I have long been aware of the historical events that are the subject here, it has not been a major focus of study for me, but recent vandalism has prompted me to pay more attention to this article, and some of the formatting problems. I have added some images, and I might do more work on it within the next week or so, and organize it by author, if no one has any better ideas. ~ Kalki 12:20, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I have done the initial re-organization and cleanup on this page, and added images, and did a little sourcing and a few corrections. I have not cut down any of the longer quotes, but I think it would probably be a good idea on at least some of them. I am taking a break from this page for a while though and might not get back to it any time soon. ~ Kalki 16:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
In fact there was an organization - that by arranging alpabetically you totally messed up. I have no problem with bolding certain parts - but I really think you should put the quote back where they were and read through them and try to understand the story that they told and how. --68.98.189.145 06:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Re-examining things, I must restate the observations I had made a couple weeks before my cleanup edits — that there was no clear order based upon any standard of either author name or statement chronology at all, and if the arrangement was merely one in which someone aspired to "tell a story" by a non-random but non-standard selection of their order, and by the bolding of what was often merely a few words here and there, rather than full statements, the intended point of the "story" remains rather dubious and unclear, and created a massive compilation that had no obvious or easily searchable arrangement or order. As even many of the sourced statements were not clearly dated, and because there were often so many of them by the same author, arranging them by the name of the author seemed the simplest and best option available.
Previously some reported remarks of Adolf Hitler were given top billing at the very start of the page, as if he were to be regarded as a primary authority and commentator on the Armenian genocide. Just because he might be the most famous of genocidal maniacs, and because he might have been inspired by the Turkish policies towards Armenians in his own policies towards Jews, Poles and others he considered inferior to a Germanic "master race" does not warrant giving exaggerated prominence to his comments on the matter. Beyond organizing the quotes alphabetically by author, rather than letting them remain arranged in a manner that might be decipherable only to the arranger, I also added extensive Wikipedia links to people with articles there, did some sourcing and correction to a few of the quotations, and added all of the images. ~ Kalki 08:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Unsourced quotes[edit]

If you can provide a reliable and precise source for any of these quotes please move them to the project page — but not otherwise. --Antiquary 20:14, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

  • We and many others have accepted the United Nations definition of genocide and there can be no argument about [the Armenian case] being genocide.
  • The Armenian citizen has not forgiven the slaughter of his father in the Kurdish mountains. But he loves you, because you also won't forgive those who blackened the name of the Turkish people.
  • I refer to those awful massacres. They are the greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were entirely the work of TalatTalat and Enver. I heard some days before they began that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres that had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I could get from him was: 'It is decided.It is the program.'
    • Prince Abdul Mecid, the heir apparent to the Ottoman Sultanate, and last Caliph.
  • When the Turkish authorities gave the orders for these deportations, they were merely giving the death warrant to a whole race; they understood this well, and, in their conversations with me, they made no particular attempt to conceal the fact. ... I am confident that the whole history of the human race contains no such horrible episode as this. The great massacres and persecutions of the past seem almost insignificant when compared to the sufferings of the Armenian race in 1915.
  • There isn't an Armenian Question anymore, as there are no Armenians in the Ottoman Empire.
    • Mehmed Talat Pasha, Minister of the Interior, Otoman Empire, as reported by Ambassador Morganthau
  • It is unlawful to designate the Armenian assets as "abandoned goods" for the Armenians, the proprietors, did not abandon their properties voluntarily; they were forcibly, compulsively removed from their domiciles and exiled. Now the government through its efforts is selling their goods... Nobody can sell my property if I am unwilling to sell it... If we are a constitutional regime functioning in accordance with constitutional law we can't do this. This is atrocious. Grab my arm, eject me from my village, then sell my goods and properties, such a thing can never be permissible. Neither the conscience of the Ottomans nor the law can allow it.
    • Ottoman Senator Ahmed Riza, before the Ottoman Parliment in 1915
  • In one way or another, the Central Government enforced and controlled the execution of the scheme, as it alone had originated the conception of it; and the Young Turkish Ministers and their associates at Constantinople are directly and personally responsible, from beginning to end, for the gigantic crime that devastated the Near East in 1915.

ANOTHER OPINION[edit]

DURING THE WAR MANY PEOPLE DIED FROM ALL SIDES. YOUR HISTORY CREATED BY YOUR HISTORIANS AND OUR HISTORY BY OUR HISTORIANS. NON OF US CAN REALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THAT TIME EXACTLY. DURING THE FIRST WORLD WAR MANY COUNTRIES HAS ATTACKED TO ILL OTTOMAN EMPIRE WHICH WAS ABOUT TO COLLAPSE. LONG WHILE THERE IS AN ANOTHER EMPIRE WHICH WAS CONTROLLING OTTOMAN EMPERIOR WHOM WAS IN A VERY WEAK POSITION(STAY IN POWER AND DO WHAT WE SAY OR PERISH). AND THAT EMPIRE DIRECTED OTTOMAN EMPIRE TO START A WAR BETWEEN RUSSIA AND OTTOMAN EMPIRE. DURING THE FIRST WORLD WAR, SOME OF THE ERMENIANS WHO WAS LEAVING IN OTTOMAN LAND TOOK SIDE BY SOVIET UNION AND ATTACKED THEIR NEIGHBOURS IN ORDER TO GAIN LAND AND WHATEVER CAN GET. THEY KILLED MANY VILLAGERS (TURKS). THE ONLY OTTOMAN EMPIRE COULD DO IS EXILE OF ERMENIANS FROM ONE OTTOMAN LAND TO ANOTHER IN ORDER TO LOSING WAR AGAINST SOWIET UNION. THE PEOPLE EXILED THAT IS CORRECT(AND SAD). ON THE WAY TO OTHER PART OF OTTOMAN LAND ON THE TRAIN OR ON ROAD SOME ERMENIANS HAS BEEN ATTACKED BY KURDISH AND ARAB EXTREMIST(LIKE ISIS) GANGS WHOM WAS INTERESTED IN ERMENIAN PEOPLES BELONGINGS. THEY KILLED MANY ERMENIANS. AND THERE WASNT ENOUGH ARMY UNIT TO PROTECT THESE PEOPLE ON THE WAY. (MAYBE THEY DIDNT WANT TO PROTECT BECAUSE OF HOW MANY TURK HAS BEEN KILLED BY ERMENIAN GANGS). SO PLEASE LETS STOP PROVOCATIONS, DEMOGY. EVERYONE LOST LOVED ONES. NEIGBOURS KILLED EACHOTHER FOR STUPID WAR (RELIGIOUS/LANGAUGE /CULTURE DIFFERENCE)...

WAR WAR WAR.STOP. 

EXAMPLE 1980s :IN KARABAG REGIAN SOME ERMENIANS KILLED WHLOE VILLAGE OF AZERIANS, women has been raped than killed and KIDS HAS BEEN SKINNED AND BURNED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE VILLAGE (I met one SURVIVOR long while ago). WHY YOU DONT CALL THAT GENOCIDE! WHEN YOU KILL IT IS OK. YOU CLOSE YOUR EYES. IT IS NOT GENOCIDE BUT WHEN OPPOSITE SIDE KILLS IT IS GENOCIDE. IS THAT FAIR. MY GRANDGRAND FATHER HAS BEEN PRISONED BY RUSIANS AND ANOTHER KILLED DURING THE WAR. BUT I DONT HATE THEM. THAT WAS FUCKIN WAR. EVERYONE DRAWN INTO. NOW WE HAVE TO STOP DIGGING PAINS AND ARGUING AND WE HAVE TO CREATE PEACE. GET LESSON FROM OUR GRANDPARENTS MISTAKE . STOP DIGGING PAST, CLAIMING WHO KILLED WHO. TRY TO STOP WAR . LETS STOP YOUR AND OUR LIAR POLLITICIANS DIGGING OLD SCARS . THATS HOW THEY COME TO POWER. TRY TO CREATE PEACE BETWEEN EVERYONE. FORGET RELIGION. FIRST TRY TO BE HUMAN FOR EACH OTHER. ONE HUMAN BEING ADVICE...

ANOTHER OPINION.[edit]

ANOTHER OPINION[edit]

DURING THE WAR MANY PEOPLE DIED FROM ALL SIDES. YOUR HISTORY CREATED BY YOUR HISTORIANS AND OUR HISTORY BY OUR HISTORIANS. NON OF US CAN REALLY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED THAT TIME EXACTLY. DURING THE FIRST WORLD WAR MANY COUNTRIES HAS ATTACKED TO ILL OTTOMAN EMPIRE WHICH WAS ABOUT TO COLLAPSE. LONG WHILE THERE IS AN ANOTHER EMPIRE WHICH WAS CONTROLLING OTTOMAN EMPERIOR WHOM WAS IN A VERY WEAK POSITION(STAY IN POWER AND DO WHAT WE SAY OR PERISH). AND THAT EMPIRE DIRECTED OTTOMAN EMPIRE TO START A WAR BETWEEN RUSSIA AND OTTOMAN EMPIRE. DURING THE FIRST WORLD WAR, SOME OF THE ERMENIANS WHO WAS LEAVING IN OTTOMAN LAND TOOK SIDE BY SOVIET UNION AND ATTACKED THEIR NEIGHBOURS IN ORDER TO GAIN LAND AND WHATEVER CAN GET. THEY KILLED MANY VILLAGERS (TURKS). THE ONLY OTTOMAN EMPIRE COULD DO IS EXILE OF ERMENIANS FROM ONE OTTOMAN LAND TO ANOTHER IN ORDER TO LOSING WAR AGAINST SOWIET UNION. THE PEOPLE EXILED THAT IS CORRECT(AND SAD). ON THE WAY TO OTHER PART OF OTTOMAN LAND ON THE TRAIN OR ON ROAD SOME ERMENIANS HAS BEEN ATTACKED BY KURDISH AND ARAB EXTREMIST(LIKE ISIS) GANGS WHOM WAS INTERESTED IN ERMENIAN PEOPLES BELONGINGS. THEY KILLED MANY ERMENIANS. AND THERE WASNT ENOUGH ARMY UNIT TO PROTECT THESE PEOPLE ON THE WAY. (MAYBE THEY DIDNT WANT TO PROTECT BECAUSE OF HOW MANY TURK HAS BEEN KILLED BY ERMENIAN GANGS). SO PLEASE LETS STOP PROVOCATIONS, DEMOGY. EVERYONE LOST LOVED ONES. NEIGBOURS KILLED EACHOTHER FOR STUPID WAR (RELIGIOUS/LANGAUGE /CULTURE DIFFERENCE)... WAR WAR WAR.STOP.

EXAMPLE http://www.azerbaijans.com/content_321_en.html EXAMPLE 1980s :IN KARABAG REGIAN SOME ERMENIANS KILLED WHOLE VILLAGE OF AZERIANS, women has been raped than killed and KIDS HAS BEEN SKINNED AND BURNED IN THE MIDDLE OF THE VILLAGE (I met one SURVIVOR long while ago). WHY YOU DONT CALL THAT GENOCIDE! WHEN YOU KILL IT IS OK. YOU CLOSE YOUR EYES. IT IS NOT GENOCIDE BUT WHEN OPPOSITE SIDE KILLS IT IS GENOCIDE. IS THAT FAIR. MY GRANDGRAND FATHER HAS BEEN PRISONED BY RUSIANS AND ANOTHER KILLED DURING THE WAR. BUT I DONT HATE THEM. THAT WAS FUCKIN WAR. EVERYONE DRAWN INTO. NOW WE HAVE TO STOP DIGGING PAINS AND ARGUING AND WE HAVE TO CREATE PEACE. GET LESSON FROM OUR GRANDPARENTS MISTAKE . STOP DIGGING PAST, CLAIMING WHO KILLED WHO. TRY TO STOP WAR . LETS STOP YOUR AND OUR LIAR POLLITICIANS DIGGING OLD SCARS . THATS HOW THEY COME TO POWER. TRY TO CREATE PEACE BETWEEN EVERYONE. FORGET RELIGION. FIRST TRY TO BE HUMAN FOR EACH OTHER. ONE HUMAN BEING ADVICE...