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Significant VFD discussions[edit]

At present there are 4 VFD discussions that between them have elements of inclusivity, censorship, harm, notability, quality and verification, bias, and fansite hijacking. Some relevant policies/guidelines/background include Wikiquote:Wikiquote, Wikiquote:What Wikiquote is not, Wikiquote:Quotability and WQ:QLP. Decisions may impact how other articles with similar characteristics are either kept, edited or deleted. I therefore invite the community to consider participating in the following VfDs: DeirgeDel^t_a^c 02:34, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

DeirgeDel^t_a^c 02:34, 8 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Making an addition to the list thats become a tricky handling. I've just recused and one admin has recused.

Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Kung Fu Panda: Secrets of the Scroll

DeirgeDel^t_a^c 08:59, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Archiving too agressive.[edit]

I personally feel the archiving on this page great but perhaps just a little too aggressive. I think I'd prefer to see old(35d) and minthreadsleft = 4. But thats just a personal viewpoint. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 02:01, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Ferien @Saroj Uprety @Koavf Pinging active sysops. I accept this proposal. Lemonaka (talk) 02:06, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sounds fine to me: this is a pretty small project compared to Wikipedia or Wiktionary, so topics can be open for a while longer. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:07, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yeah I would agree (and I'm going to say that even though you've already done it). It was way too quick to archive. On simplewiki (which I believe is comparable to this project in terms of size) minthreadsleft is set to 5. I think 4-5 is a good minimum level. --Ferien (talk) 18:23, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@DeirgeDel Done. Lemonaka (talk) 12:58, 22 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Worldcat identities and Authority control.[edit]

In a nutshell Worldcat has switched from using identities to entities and has left the {{worldcat subject}}, {{worldcat id}} and {{worldcat}} templates non-functional. Only {{worldcat id}} and I/(we?) are possibly looking at an update to {{worldcat}} to fix it. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 23:53, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Authority control[edit]

I can't find but I think there was talk of using an updated version of {{Authority control}} so identities could be picked up from wikidata than as hard coded parameters, albeit some may not like that. In all events if {{Authority control}} was upgraded to cope with Worldcat entities that might make any updates to the Worldcat templates totally unnecessary. {{Authority control}} and associated module(s) are beyond the scope what enWikiquote could sustainably managed and e.g. the English Wikipedia version would need to be copied and regularly refreshed. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 23:53, 23 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Agreed to import w:en:Template:Authority control and related modules/templates until such time as universal templates are introduced. This is a perfect use case for Wikidata and beyond our scope and ability to maintain. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:12, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Koavf:: From your statement it looks like {{Authority control}} is the way to go and basically to remove the Worldcat* templates off the see completely. Per w:en:Template:Authority control documentation it seems like the current version already supports d:p:P10832 so that ought to be good for us. I looked at the discussion at Template talk:Authority control#WorldCat and while technically they seem on top of the template change there seems less of a roadmap of plans to get Wikidata items with P7859 replaced with P10832 items - but I may be missing something. If I read it correctly they are interested in the hundreds of thousands P7859 cases they have. With a Wikiquote hat on I am interested in the 90+ cases where {{Worldcat id}} is in use, and I suspect in most(all?) cases the Worldcat id is hardcoded as a template parameter. I have a python program, "lollipop2", that could be the basis of a program to extract those World id if values if necessary. But there may be better and quicker methods of doing that and it may not be necessary anyway as I do not have a Worldcat id to Worldcat entity map function identified to me. The sub goal is to get P10832 populated for though 90+ cases, and the other sub goal is to get {{authority control}} on those articles. The order that is done doesn't really matter but it might be perhaps better from some AWB viewpoints to leave {{Worldcat id}} in place until last in the process but I'd suggest leaving that to the person doing the implementation. There is a list of Wikiquote affected articles currently at Template talk:Worldcat#Articles affected by Template:Worldcat id. One interesting use case I'm looking at is the current versions of H. G. Wells here on enWikiquote and also on wikidata. Might be better praying to Mother Teresa though rather than CIR and BATTLEGROUNDing war of the worlds. Obviously because on by indef block on enWP I cant communicate there and discussions on :Simple, :Commons, & UTRS means I feel thats likely to continue for the rest of my life. Key point: Best if someone get Authority control imported to get that box ticked. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 08:18, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I'm pretty reluctant to import templates because they always have so many dependencies, but it seems like the only option here. I'll leave this open for a bit to see if anyone else has a magic solution. If I don't get to it in the next two weeks and I forget, please do ping me. (And as an aside, I know nothing about any drama with you on en.wp, so it in no way prejudices my perspective on your edits here. I hope whatever that is is resolved soon or is at least in a good state now.) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:04, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Koavf:: Everythings now set to received the new {{authority control}} which relevant articles having the old worldcat template removed and replaced with authority control and associated wikidata items have P10832 set. If you need test cases to check then tables at User:DeirgeDel/xpop2 are probably useful. If you don't have time we could always asked global sysops. If you need help checking stuff I'll try to help if I can. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 22:28, 5 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Great. So what is the action you need from me? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:29, 5 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Koavf:: I'd be delighted if you'd import the latest {{Authority control}} template from the English Wikipedia (which picks up items from Wikidata) and install it here with any dependencies and resolving any problems. Thanks -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 01:09, 6 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It keeps on failing. What is your Plan B? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:00, 6 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Plan B would be for me to do it my but under my current rules of engagement restrictions I'd have to act lone wolf. On top of that I don't have the time and bits of it would likely push the boundaries of any coding skills I have in that area and I'm possibly locked in P7859/P10832 battles and thats different api's/codesets. Plan C would be to raise a request centrally for someone with right skillset to do it - in practice you might need to do that. To the degree I've got similar issues with dome buggettes with the Cite Q template on :Simple. Are you OK with Plan 'C'? If you need me to try plan B without going lone wolf I need your 100% support to breaking my rules of engagement. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 05:08, 6 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't mind requesting someone help import, but I don't know who would do it. Otherwise, I can keep on trying to manually import all of the dependencies, which is a pain. This is why I don't like this whole system. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:13, 6 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Koavf: Its possible the chief maintainers/developers on the English Wikipedia might help. I (as Bigdelboy) have painful experiences of recursively Transwiki'ing templates. In this case there might be modules involved and there's alway's risk stuff may be written with Wiki dependent code. May be worth asking, tracking or reverse engineering this seemingly good dude's work. B(lone wolf), Plan B (Fully supported and breaching my rules of engagement), Plan C or whatever you suggest as Plan D. The fallback will be me on Plan B (Lone wolf) not a plan Z (give up). Your choice (I know I'm throwing you a curveball, sorry). -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 13:23, 6 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This matter is now beg discussed at Template talk:Authority control#Recent edits due to issues that have arisen and I'd suggest further comments are placed there. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 16:44, 6 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Authority control installation stall[edit]

Discussions at Template talk:Authority control#Recent edits have presented at least two possible candidate options for sourcing a revised version of {{Authorit control}} with pros and cons to each and I would appreciate additional help in resolving a possible impasse. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:38, 8 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

P10832 population task[edit]

I'm kicking off a Wikidata P10832 population tasks for the Wikidata items associated with the 90 or articles using {{Worldcat id}}. See also d:Property talk:P10832#Method of determining P10832 value from P7859 value.. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:07, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My target on this is a csv file or spreadsheet or whatever suitable for quickstatement input that updates P10832 for our 90+ items of consideration ideally with a reference also. The fallback is plain old Wikidata interactive input. There's a thingy tool using google sheets to quickstatments that can could alternatively help and there's a youtube for that somewhere might help. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I am praying the theologian Saint Mother Teresa is a good non-QLP use case example: -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mother Teresa : {{Worldcat id}} has a hardcode parameter one of lccn-n79-144708 -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
d:Q30547 - This has a P7859 value of lccn-n79144708 -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
w:en:Mother Teresa -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
- Just noticed that the link to Worldcat in authority control on enWP [1] is redirected by Worldcat to [2] (The Worldcat Entity). It is likely the trailing slash on the former url is significant. (It may be this redirect does not work for all entities). This "discovery" by me that is probably known by all in the know may modify my approach here. Note also {{Worldcat id}} does not use a trailing slash and I may try adding one in a controlled manner which may get it working again, at least for some cases. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:36, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Silly me! The core issue here is not a trailing slash it is that Wikiquote's Mother Teresa iswas using a hardcode value of lccn-n79-144708 rather than lccn-n79144708 as the URL presented to worldcat.org. Having made this change on Mother Teresa's enWQ page {{Worldcat id}} is now using lccn-n79144708 as the id and generating this target URL which is being usefully redirected by the target to a page related to Mother Teresa's entity id E39PBJk8XCQpPMdrBTykXvRkDq. I will need to check some other stuff before commenting further. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 14:48, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Mike Peel, Pigsonthewing:: Mike, Andy: I think I am seeing the potential for a tool for mapping P7859 (Worldcat ID) to P10832 (Worldcat entity) values; at least in some cases. I wouldn't expect to be the first to notice this and wonder if you are aware of a project or tool to do this in Wikidata. Thanks. -- (formerly Djm-leighpark) DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:46, 25 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

P10832 population task plan F[edit]

Obviously going through from Plan A to Plan Z (which is give up) and also plan M (simply enter P10832's manually, there's only 90). I'm currently at plan F which I believe to be feasible. I'm well aware an alt. plan may come from the blindslide which completely obsoletes plan F. I've a (non P.D.) program, I call it lollipop2, which can quickstatements to do sitelinks for (some) unnconnected pages at scale. I usually do manual sitelinking but lollipop2 can be useful when the number of Unconnected pages in mainspace get over about a dozen as it did last week. Anyway lollipop 2 has a good deal of working code that I believe is adaptable and extendable to help; so I've forked a program called xpop2 which I've started to adapted. Crucially xpop2 (currently) lacks ability to get any existing value of P10832 (or any property) from the wikidata item butI have confidence that's an easy extension . The key point is it would be a black box with a list of (the 90 Wikiquote) articles as input and would produce a CSV with the following fields to for filter for QS input: -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 11:52, 26 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Articles using {{Worldcat id}} as of 23 May 2023
Field	Mandatory	Source	Coding cost	Notes
Wikiquote article name	yes	Flat file input list	None	—
Wikidata item id	yes	Sitelink from Wikiquote article	Minimal	—
Existing P10832 value	yes	Wikidata item property	Some	Essentially to avoid update of existing value
P7859 value from wikidata	no	Wikidata item property	Minimal	Useful. Reuse of code for getting P10832
P7859 value from Worldcat Template	no	Worldcat param on WQ article.	Low	Interesting and possibly useful if not on Wikidata.
P10832 value from Worldcat api	no	Wikidata item property	Some-to-large	Does not always yield required result.
P10832 field for manual input	yes(ish)	Null field	Trivial	Placeholder for manual entry later

Some early results from a really dodgy and klugey xpop2 are at User:DeirgeDel/xpop2. Unfortunately no progress (certainly as yet) with the really useful P10832 value from Worldcat api. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 00:17, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Actually now good news as seem able to generate P10832 for most of the Wikiquote use cases! -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 03:49, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This have come up and I want this off my to-do list so have boldly completed populating P10832 by xpop2 (+ about 6 manual) for 87 articles/wikidata items and leaving the book triology. Strictly speaking at some point need to remove the {{Worldcat id}} templates and add an {{Authority control}} template whan or about when that arrives (an AWB job).

Done (details are here) -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 22:53, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The Worldcat templates have all been deleted and I've used by alt Bigdelboy to use AWB to remove most of the templates from articles, albiet my re could have been a tad better and I had to mop up about 12/15 manually. Everything now rests on the arrival of the updated {{Authority control}}. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 22:19, 5 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Selection of the U4C Building Committee[edit]

The next stage in the Universal Code of Conduct process is establishing a Building Committee to create the charter for the Universal Code of Conduct Coordinating Committee (U4C). The Building Committee has been selected. Read about the members and the work ahead on Meta-wiki.

-- UCoC Project Team, 04:21, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikiquote opportunity in May and June: graduation speeches by notable people[edit]

I found a bunch of colorful Michelle Yeoh quotes in the current Harvard Magazine. Lots of university magazines publish quotes from graduation speakers around this time of year. There's a list here. HouseOfChange (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Is there a campaign running?[edit]

@Anthere:: I've seen slight surge in articles about Africa? and/or gender in the past few days (overall probably a good thing for Wikiquote balance but article quality and substance may be issues) ... is there are campaign running and who are the organisers / moderators ? -- Thanks -- (formerly Djm-leighpark) DeirgeDel^t_a^c 10:04, 1 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

odd. I am not aware of any wikiquote campaign running in Africa at the moment. We just finished Africa Environment Climate (but most of it was on local language wikipedias). There is currently Wiki4HumanRights. And Wiki Loves Earth. It might be that one of the Wiki4HumanRights groups decided to focus a session on Wikiquote ? But at first sight, it does not seem to be the case [3]. Then there is the Africa Day campaign (does not seem super gender related to me...). And Afrocuration... Anthere (talk) 22:56, 2 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Oh my... Found something !!! I quote WikiQuote Training !! As part of the Africa Day Campaign 2023, a series of online training sessions are being held. Join us during our next session as we train you on how to contribute to WikiQuotes. Join the Africa Day Campaign training to be equipped with skills on how to contribute on WikiQuote. Date: Wednesday 7th June, 2023. Time : 16:00 hrs UTC. More info : https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Africa_Day_Campaign/Join_the_Contest -- Anthere (talk) 22:58, 2 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@Anthere:: I can't see that particular link but I do see m:Africa Day Campaign 2023/List of articles where a shedload of Wikiquote suggestions have been placed! To put it simply I am feeling a little overwhelmed trying to triage and clean up a wave of new articles being created ... at a time when I am quite overwhelmed anyway. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 09:40, 4 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I hear you... Sorry, I am not involved in that campaign. I’ll try to come help clean up Anthere (talk) 15:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

@@Anthere:: From a sitelinking to Wikidata I've sort of got back on top of it. There's been a glut of misspelling of articles and I resorted to doing moves using redirects which I've speedied which probably pisses them off. As the're not being deleted they appear on the list of unconnected articles which is a pain for me and pisses me off. Stuff has come through without links to the English Wikpedia articie and its additional work getting that set up. I've done the basic Living person category when necessary which is essential from a QLP point of view. I suspect the quotability quality of many articles is pretty poor. I've placed some advice on the talk pages of the two most problematic creators but it was a little after the horse had bolted. The worst case I've just fixes also involved a suplicate Wikidata item that had to be merged and which identified the subject as both male and female! I'm dong this as the time I'm trying to deal with some bulk stuff and cross wiki issues. I'm not a happy bunny. Thanks for offering to help. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 22:01, 5 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Indeed... I see some of the articles... and this is... painful. I saw the announcement on Telegram for the zoom training session by Eugene Masiku and wanted to join. But I was not available at that time. I invite him to look at this conversation.

Situation such as User talk:Jessephu where the user is completely unresponsive is a major issue. And Djm has been very patient. Anthere (talk) 10:32, 9 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I have a question for you Djm. I see you posted a « welcome » on those new editors talk page. Such as here. Is there one, or several official templates to use to welcome new editors ? I do not see any... Wikiquote:Template messages. Mind if I create something ? Anthere (talk)

@Anthere:: See Category:User welcome templates. Some of these may have options I can't remember. I wish it wouldn't say happy editing as all too often I'm sending work off to a deletion process soon after giving the message. One key reason for leaving it is to ensure a newbie is pointed at places to get help. You're welcome to create a new one. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 13:12, 9 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello, DeirgeDel Eugene Masiku here. Anthere and I just had a conversation on Telegram regarding the issue at hand. I have assured her I will relay the information back to the community participating in the campaign to be particular on how they contribute on WikiQuote to avoid such mistakes. —This unsigned comment is by Kaffzz (talk • contribs) 11:01, 9 June 2023.

Transgender article lead section possible issue[edit]

For my sins I currently sort of share triaging and informally curating many of the new articles that are created here. If I've any concerns or disputes from with the lead section I'll usually sync. with the lead section of the English Wikipedia article. If there's no English Wikipedia article that can't happen verification and notability need to be established by citing the lead section or it might be unverified original research. The new article 2020s anti-transgender movement in the United Kingdom is giving me some problems because there are some very specific claims in the lead section and while cited (feels like a W:WP:CITEBOMB I am unsure if these are addressing all the claims in the lead section with W:WP:NO ORIGINAL RESEARCH and not being a W:WP:SYNTH. At present I've a precautionary {{NPOV}} on the article but I'd like a community view at Talk:2020s anti-transgender movement in the United Kingdom. Thankyou. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 20:54, 7 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Clean Delete Reasons Gadget[edit]

Anyone know why this gadget is not working at the moment? (Or better yet, how to fix it?) ~ UDScott (talk) 12:39, 9 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Do you know when it stopped working? (I've never heard of it and assume its an admin tool but a link might help ) -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 14:20, 9 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I've seen its on the administrative section of the gadgets tab of the preferences page. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 14:24, 9 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Instead of leaving the contents of a deleted page as the edit summary, it blanks it automatically, allowing you to put in your own reason for the deletion. Just personal preference I guess, but I've grown used to it and like it better with it. It stopped working a couple of days ago I think, but I don't know why - and didn't see anything obvious that could have caused it. ~ UDScott (talk) 15:06, 9 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Root cause possibly-probably my fault for challenging admins to install a new version of a {{Version control}} without insisting on backout plan in the event of a failed or exoceted installation like I'd insist for in Old Holby even if the Irishman would burst in laughter at the sight of an MS Project Plan. If that's what happened there could be a pig flying down from Coventry to have sandbox training session! -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 15:17, 9 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

More seriously the source code is here as far as I can make out and it hasn't changed in a long while. Javascript not being enabled may be a cause or it *might* be an obscure skin issue. Less likely to be an Authority control dependency module. -- DeirgeDel^t_a^c 17:32, 9 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]