Talk:John Maynard Keynes

I moved the "average opinion" quote out of "Attributed" and into the Quote section given that the quote comes directly from page 159 of the General Theory.--196.2.50.9 00:02, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I did the same to the "specialists in mental disease" quote, which actually already appeared in context in the Quote section from "Economic Possibilities for our Grandchildren"; I bolded it there.

"The government should pay people to dig holes in the ground and then fill them up."

Did he really say this? Fxm12 06:25, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

If he did, that's proof that he was no economist. Keynes' profession was to invent absurd rationalizations for power-grabbing.24.6.159.76 11:19, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes he did say this.. Read The Text!! Book 3, Chapter 10, Section 6 pg.129 "The General Theory.."--Oracleofottawa 02:23, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Here is what you are referring to, straight from the General Theory. Keynes was talking about the marginal utility of labor. This quote means nothing different than someone saying that war can have an economically stimulating effect.

"If the Treasury were to fill old bottles with banknotes, bury them at suitable depths in disused coalmines which are then filled up to the surface with town rubbish, and leave it to private enterprise on well-tried principles of laissez-faire to dig the notes up again (the right to do so being obtained, of course, by tendering for leases of the note-bearing territory), there need be no more unemployment and, with the help of the repercussions, the real income of the community, and its capital wealth also, would probably become a good deal greater than it actually is. It would, indeed, be more sensible to build houses and the like; but if there are political and practical difficulties in the way of this, the above would be better than nothing."

Book 3, Chapter 10, Section 6 pg.129 "The General Theory.."

—This unsigned comment is by 76.181.166.55 (talk • contribs) .

"Capitalism is the astonishing belief ..."

Recently attributed to Keynes is this quote:

• Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.

This seems to have originated with Michael Albert's book Moving Forward: program for a participatory economy, p. 128. It is a corruption of an earlier and more grammatical quote attributed to Keynes:

• Capitalism is the astonishing belief that the nastiest motives of the nastiest men somehow or other work for the best results in the best of all possible worlds.

This quote does not appear in any of Keynes' writing, as far as can be found online. Also, blogger Steve Cotler has surveyed several economists and none was able to verify the quote.

The earliest appearance yet found is in the 1951 book Christianity and human relations in industry by Sir George Schuster in a discussion of nineteenth century free enterprise doctrine:

• This theory and practice were supported (to quote Canon Demant) 'by the doctrine of the invisible hand which behind the scenes of human will and intelligence made all things work together for good whether men loved God or not' or, as J M Keynes used to put it, 'the astonishing belief that the nastiest motives of the nastiest men somehow or other work for the best results in the best of all possible worlds.'

Note that the word capitalism does not appear in this incomplete quote. The complete quote is found, without citation, in J. A. C. Brown's 1954 book, The social psychology of industry; human relations in the factory., p. 305 Brown does refer to Schuster on other topics, so it is quite possible that he copied the quote from Schuster. This text was reprinted in various editions and translations for over thirty years, which may account for the proliferation of this quote.

—KHirsch 02:14, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone". This is how it is supposed to go. Im not sure what work it was from.

—This unsigned comment is by 76.181.166.55 (talk • contribs) .

References

Albert, Michael (2000). Moving forward: program for a participatory economy. A K Press. ISBN 1902593413. OCLC 300924978. 

Brown, James Alexander Campbell (1954). The social psychology of industry: human relations in the factory. Penguin. OCLC 231786. 

Schuster, George (1951). Christianity and human relations in industry. Epworth Press. OCLC 2935627. 

"We destroyed Christianity" quote

I found a number of sources (e.g. this one) which record Keynes as saying, "We destroyed Christianity and yet had its benefits." I am highly suspicious of this quote, as it seems to be used by groups to say, "See! Keynes was an atheist, but even he saw that Christianity was beneficial!"

Anybody know anything about this? --13.12.254.95 16:26, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

• And J M [Keynes] said that he would be inclined not to demolish Christianity if it were proved that without it morality is impossible. “I begin to see that our generation—yours and mine, Virginia, owed a great deal to our fathers' religion. And the young, like Julian [Bell], who are brought up without it will never get so much out of life. They're trivial: like dogs in their lusts. We had the best of both worlds. We destroyed Christianity and yet had its benefits.” Well the argument went something like that.
  • The Diary of Virginia Woolf, iv, 1931-5 ed. A.O.Bell (1982), 208 (19 Apr. 1934)

—KHirsch 02:14, 4 April 2010 (UTC)