User talk:Kalki

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Love rules without rules.

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What's So Bad About Feeling Good?
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Kalki · archives: X · index · iota · imago · αnima · 2003 · 2004 · 2005 · 2006 · 2007 · 2008 · 2009 · controversies · assessments‎‎ · VOC·K · 2009 † 2010 · outrages · 2011 · contentions · RfA1 · 2012 · RfA2‎‎ · 2013 · 2014 · RfA3‎‎ · Magic · Worldsong · Restorations · Chronology · Vox Box · Heroes · OZ · OASIS ·
The imperialist ideology of force, from whatever side it comes, must be shattered for all time.
~ The White Rose ~
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The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians.

~ George Orwell ~
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I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy.
~ George Washington ~
Every morning
I shall concern myself anew about the boundary
Between the love-deed-Yes and the power-deed-No
And pressing forward honor reality.

We cannot avoid
Using power,
Cannot escape the compulsion
To afflict the world,
So let us, cautious in diction
And mighty in contradiction,
Love powerfully.

~ Martin Buber ~
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What's outside of Pleasantville?
~ Gary Ross ~
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My political opinions lean more and more to Anarchyphilosophically understood, meaning abolition of control … The most improper job of any man … is bossing other men. Not one in a million is fit for it, and least of all those who seek the opportunity.
~ J. R. R. Tolkien ~
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If rules make you nervous and depressed, and not desirous of participating in the Wiki, then ignore them and go about your business.
~ Lee Daniel Crocker ~
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I AM an Anarchist.
All good men are Anarchists.

All cultured, kindly men; all gentlemen; all just men are Anarchists.
Jesus was an Anarchist.

~ Elbert Hubbard ~

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Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:
be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
~ Jesus ~
Matthew 10:16

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Once for all, then, a short precept is given thee:
Love, and do what thou wilt.

~ Augustine of Hippo ~

Love works magic.
It is the final purpose
Of the world story,
The Amen of the Universe.
~ Novalis ~


Whatever pretended pessimists in search of notoriety may say, most people are naturally kind, at heart.

~ James Branch Cabell ~
The Cream of the Jest

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Moderate strength is shown in violence, supreme strength is shown in levity.
~ G. K. Chesterton ~
The Man Who Was Thursday

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The law of levity is allowed to supersede the law of gravity.

~ R. A. Lafferty ~

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Of course I'm sane, when trees start talking to me, I don't talk back.

~ Terry Pratchett ~
The Light Fantastic

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A fool sees not the same tree that a wise man sees.

~ William Blake ~
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Something always manages to draw me near the tree that lightning is about to fall upon.

~ Roger Zelazny ~
Lord of Light

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The realization that life is absurd and cannot be an end, but only a beginning. This is a truth nearly all great minds have taken as their starting point.
~ Albert Camus ~

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As soon as men live entirely in accord with the law of love natural to their hearts and now revealed to them, which excludes all resistance by violence, and therefore hold aloof from all participation in violence — as soon as this happens, not only will hundreds be unable to enslave millions, but not even millions will be able to enslave a single individual.
~ Leo Tolstoy ~


There is no justice in following unjust laws.
~ Aaron Swartz‎‎ ~


That which is not just, is not Law; and that which is not Law, ought not to be obeyed.
~ Algernon Sydney ~

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There is no greater mindlessness and absurdity than to force conscience and the spirit with external power, when only their creator has authority for them.
~ Ferenc Dávid ~

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Kids! Bringing about Armageddon can be dangerous. Do not attempt it in your own home.
Good Omens


There probably is a God. Many things are easier to explain if there is than if there isn't.
~ John von Neumann ~
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God is an Iron.
~ Spider Robinson ~
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Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.
~ Albert Einstein ~
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10 years, 8 months, and 4 days.


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With this and other accounts I have made over 108,000 contributive edits, created well over 1000 pages and done substantial work on well over 1000 more, some of which are listed here. JUL Soul Iris.png
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This is the primary account of Kalki, who has also used many other account-names here, some since the very first days of this Wiki.

"If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it."
Foundational Principles against overly-controlling forces developing on the wikis.
Even if you have read them before, PLEASE EXAMINE ANEW: Wikipedia:Ignore all rules, and the other links available there, including the links delineating much which Wikipedia was NOT.
These were some of the earliest directives established by the founding workers on the Wikimedia projects.

"Ignore all rules: If rules make you nervous and depressed, and not desirous of participating in the wiki, then ignore them entirely and go about your business." ~ RulesToConsider
"IAR is policy, always has been" ~ Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales


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I am in a period of very intermittent but gradually developing activity here : I was once an admin here (from 29 January 2004 to 1 December 2009), but being that no longer, there is far less usefulness or need for my regular presence, and I am far less inclined to spend as much time monitoring as many things. I continue to serve, protect and develop this project to the extent I can amidst many other concerns, but I follow no set schedule. A devotion to preserving and expanding many forms of Awareness, Life, Love and appreciation of the principles of Justice, Unity Liberty and Joyous Universalist Love in truly profound and genuine ways far beyond that of lip-service, based on an intense commitment to the crucial virtues of humility, courage, honesty and compassion, continues to guide me and abide with me. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 04:44, 7 December 2009 (UTC) + tweaks Kalki·· 04:44, 10 April 2013 (UTC)


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We gaze continually at the world and it grows dull in our perceptions.
Yet seen from the another's vantage point, as if new, it may still take our breath away.

~ Alan Moore ~

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Everybody is special.
Everybody is a hero, a lover, a fool, a villain, everybody.
Everybody has their story to tell...

~ Alan Moore ~
V for Vendetta

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I love my BELOVED
… ooh …
ALL and Everywhere.

~ Kate Bush ~

A master in the art of living draws no sharp distinction between his work and his play; his labor and his leisure; his mind and his body; his education and his recreation.
He hardly knows which is which.
He simply pursues his vision of excellence through whatever he is doing, and leaves others to determine whether he is working or playing.
To himself, he always appears to be doing both.
~ L. P. Jacks ~


The Dude abides.
I don't know about you but I take comfort in that.
It's good knowin' he's out there.
The Dude.
Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners.

~ The Stranger ~
~ The Big Lebowski ~
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I am convinced that everyone can develop a good heart and a sense of universal responsibility with or without religion.
~ Tenzin Gyatso, 14th Dalai Lama ~
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The words "God is love" have this deep meaning: that everything that is against love is ultimately doomed and damned.
~ Halford E. Luccock ~

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I am an Anarchist not because I believe Anarchism is the final goal, but because there is no such thing as a final goal.
~ Rudolf Rocker ~

I've never seen anybody really find the answer, but they think they have.
So they stop thinking.

But the job is to seek mystery, evoke mystery, plant a garden in which strange plants grow and mysteries bloom.
The need for mystery is greater than the need for an answer.
~ Ken Kesey ~

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Kalki· archives: index · 2003 · 2004 · 2005 · 2006 · 2007 · 2008 · 2009 · November 2009 Controversies · Assessments‎‎ · VOC·K · 2009 † 2010 · Outrages of 2010‎‎ · 2011 · RfA1 · 2012 · RfA2‎‎ · 2013 · 2014 · RfA3‎‎ · Magic · Worldsong · Restorations · Chronology · Vox Box ·

My years are not advancing as fast as you might think.
~ "Phil" ~
~ Groundhog Day ~

Ω [edit]

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Kalki · archives: X · index · iota · imago · αnima · 2003 · 2004 · 2005 · 2006 · 2007 · 2008 · 2009 · controversies · assessments‎‎ · VOC·K · 2009 † 2010 · outrages · 2011 · contentions · RfA1 · 2012 · RfA2‎‎ · 2013 · 2014 · RfA3‎‎ · Magic · Worldsong · Restorations · Chronology · Vox Box · Heroes · OZ · OASIS ·


Hi Kalki, please can you take a look at the Einstein talk page. :) HPotato (talk) 14:01, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

I have just now responded to your comments on that page, and once again assert that Einstein's outlook, whatever his theological views, dispositions or attitudes may have been at various times, was consistently Humanistic. ~ Kalki·· 22:35, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Quote of the day February 21, 2014[edit]

Just saw you added a quote from Ellen Page's moving Coming Out speech as Ouote of the Day. Thank you very much for the addition of this powerful and wonderful quote. May YOU be blessed with health, peace and love! --P3Y229 (talk) 01:05, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the appreciation, and thanks for creating the Ellen Page page — I had found many of her statements quoteworthy for some time and had intended to eventually create one, but simply hadn't gotten around to it. I might actually have some quotes I had meant to add from interviews floating around on some hard drives, and might add a bit more to her page in coming weeks. ~ Kalki·· 01:14, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

+1, the QOTD you created for tomorrow looks very good, I commend you, but note that the two pictures you selected are of the "author", so they would be according to guidelines that I consider ideal, and I don't think anyone would object to them (pictures). Please see, though, the comments I left at Village Pump: I would be interested if you could address namely 1) the Freedom argument, and 2) concerns for viewership [perhaps I was too harsh, of course it is unfair to blame the QOTD for less views, when there are much more important content and navigational problems. It is not my intention to blame you for it, in fact, I believe you did more than any other contributor to make WQ more visible, popular, & better, and I'll clarify that there.]. I also made a suggestion for today's QOTD, which you made with 2 more "mystical" pictures, for it to be with a simple author's picture instead. Would that "solution" be that bad, do you think? ~ DanielTom (talk) 19:03, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Though I am usually considerate and often acceptive of many forms of advice, I generally have a strong antipathy to any attempts to needlessly develop mandates toward prescribed forms, or to deride associations and relevance of images that are not immediately apparent to all. I have not had time to thoroughly examine and respond to all the recent comments, suggestions and derisions that have occurred here or at the Village pump since yesterday, but I will attempt to do so later today, and in coming days. I have been busy elsewhere recently, and might have a few relatively free days coming up. ~ Kalki·· 14:47, 21 February 2014 (UTC) + tweak
I have spent much of the day occupied elsewhere, and have a few more places to go before I can rest from some tasks and perhaps do some further work here. I certainly won't have an opportunity to make extensive responses for at least a few hours, and perhaps after I have slept a bit as well. ~ Kalki·· 23:23, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Kalki, I cannot point to the obvious abuse that is editing protected pages against consensus (there is no consensus that 4 pictures, including the two small ones you normally place at the top and bottom of the quote, should be removed or are too many), which I believe is being done maliciously, and just to bully you, because I would run the risk of being blocked (and then, by proxy, banned). But since the admins here pretend not to notice this, it would seem worthier of your time to try to address the issue, rather than posting the sort of (frankly) personal attacks that do not really advance your cause nor rebut any presented argument. Given that I am almost forced to not join in this battle against bullying, and you appear to be alone in this, I would really like to see you playing your cards more wisely. (P.S. You remind me of José Agostinho de Macedo, and if I didn't know any better I would believe you to be a reincarnation of his, though that is a talking point for another evening...) ~ DanielTom (talk) 23:44, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
I just happen to be back from a brief excursion and noticed your comments. I am generally cautious in what I declare, and ever strive to constrain myself to honesty, justice and fairness, even among those who regularly favor many forms and formalities of dishonesty, injustice and foulness, if they believe they will be personally advantageous to them and their aims. I am far more aware of much of the nature and actually limited strengths and far more significant weaknesses of those who most delight in malicious attitudes and actions than I am inclined to specify at this point — and I actually temper many of my potential actions and reactions far more than can immediately be apparent to others. I actually expect to be very busy elsewhere for at least a few more days now, but plan to do at least a few actually necessary things here, in what time I have, and look forward to addressing many issues in a gradually more extensive manner. I believe it will become gradually far more evident that I am actually an extraordinarily patient person, and know the need for keeping many aspects of one's awareness of many things private, especially among those who are plainly malicious in various subtle or overt ways. Whatever the particular constraints on your personal interactions here, I recommend you abide by them vigorously, and I assure you, I am far more prone to laugh at people's efforts to intimidate or bully me, and forgive their foolishness, than actually greatly fear them, or even greatly anger at them, for many reasons that I believe will gradually become more clear to many people in this coming year. I might soon explain some reasons for my attitudes, which actually favor many forms of tolerance and forgiveness even of the most asinine and belligerent, in some examples I can provide from past experiences. I actually am presently in no particular hurry to dispel some of the mysteries of which I am aware and appreciative, and know that some of the help I am able to provide to others involves me remaining patient and tolerant, and willing to bear both relatively mild and severe frustrations, in ways that some people plainly cannot easily understand or appreciate. ~ Kalki·· 00:18, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Image Use Practices and Policies[edit]

In response to the increasingly vigorous and coordinated efforts of others, against long standing options and practices here, I am currently drafting this message. I might wait a few days before I begin using it or some revision of it elsewhere, on the user pages of such people as have indicated approval of the use of images by me and others; comments on how it might be improved or supported, or even significant objections to it are welcome here. I am well aware that some will seek to isolate some particular issue disputes from larger issues of general principles involved, because where many vitally important principles are ignored or denied any relevance, in sufficiently vigorous ways, those who have little regard for them can have marked advantages over those who do. I have actually constrained and might reduce some mention of these, but I also might expand on them, if I believe there is a legitimate need to do so, for the purposes of clarity.
P.S. 2014·02·26 : I have just realized, I could actually post a much smaller message to people's user pages, directing them to read this message here, or on some other user page, thus not posting a large message on their talk page. I might decide to do that.

≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈ ∞ ≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈
Even on the day I first posted this, I realized it might be better to delay a while, and consolidate other matters of greater significance into any notices which I send out to others, and I believe I will do that, but that might take some weeks, rather than days to complete, and so this might remain here without any links to it for some time yet. ~ Kalki·· 18:18, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

This message is a relatively formal one which I intend to address to many editors who have in the past indicated approval or even enthusiasm for how images have long been used on this site. Though there clearly are exceptions and varieties of opinions on what images are best or most appropriate in different ways, I am making an appeal to you to become more involved in influencing policy decisions, even if you are not much interested in actively developing them, as I believe very few people usually are, including myself. Wikis were devised from the start by Ward Cunningham, and used by Jimmy Wales and others to maximize participation of all interested people in worthy projects and to minimize needless and detrimental controls over individuals. EVERY legitimately contributive editor on this Wiki project has entirely as much right as ANY administrator or official to make their opinions and preferences known and to influence policy decisions by reasonable arguments, observations, and occasionally official votes in determining consensus options. I have indicated many times, in many ways that I am an advocate of ever greater awareness, appreciation and respect for the principles of Justice, Unity, Liberty and many vitally important virtues, including, most prominently, Humility, Courage, Honesty and Compassion.

For MANY years here, I have been delighted to add much valuable material to this project, and to be able to help others, especially those of general good will, in whatever ways I could. As a contributor I have created well over a thousand pages, and worked significantly on well over a thousand more, many of which are specifically tallied at User:Kalki/index. For many years as an admin, and an official bureaucrat who could grant admin privileges to others, I EMPHASIZED on my User page: "I am one of the administrators here, which doesn't give me any special authority… only a bit more ability to keep others from misusing the privileges provided."

I believe that over the years that a very few people have been increasingly inclined to misuse their status or privileges in such ways as have been detrimental to all, and sought to increase the "official" controls of a few over most, and diminish the perceived or actual rights of all. In 2009, I was actually beginning to make rather strong statements against such developments, and considering resigning as a bureaucrat as a significant protest, when even my status as a long admired admin was suddenly challenged, and I lost that in some controversies and concerns which followed, because of my extensive use of alternate accounts, in ways I did not explain to the satisfaction of others, and which a few people have since implied were malicious or clearly against policies, which I assert they definitely were NOT. For the most part they were created as a means of sparking interest in various ideas I find admirable, though they have since been defaced in such forms of active suppression and distortions of facts in ways I definitely find contemptible.

Currently, a very few people, with sometimes quite diverse motives, some with quite legitimate concerns, and one particular individual I sincerely believe is motivated primarily by the will to harass me, have in past months increasingly consolidated their will and ability to work as an effective bloc seeking to diminish the use of images here in various ways, and to impose more rigorous and absolute constraints on how they can be used by any editors. I am aware you may not wish to become active at all in these oftentimes contentious and sometimes quite passionate discussions, but I request you to at least examine these discussions at times, and occasionally make whatever comments you might believe could be helpful against the development of overly rigorous constraints on editor options, by those most motivated to find ways to reduce or eliminate many of these.

Whatever your opinions might be, for or against some of my own, with Great Hope and Sincerity, to the fullest extent I presently can, I offer you: Blessings ~ Kalki·· 15:29, 26 February 2014 (UTC) + tweaks

why we laugh[edit]

Why do we laugh? Because it is a gravely religious matter: it is the Fall of Man. Only man can be absurd: for only man can be dignified. ~ G. K. Chesterton

We laugh when we feel superior to someone. (Consider why we laugh when we see, for example, someone slipping on a banana peel.) I am yet to find an exception to this rule. ~ DanielTom (talk) 12:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Actually I can think of several types of exceptions to this rule, which you propose, but explaining them would involve indicating many mystical and rational concepts or types of experiences which would probably, at least initially, be unfamiliar to you (I recognize that this statement itself might be used to support your assertion, so far as it goes). One way I might generally summarize some of what I mean, is to state that much laughter is possible when one enters into various states of Kenosis such as many forms of mysticism can bring human minds to conceive and perceive in various diverse ways. WE all are involved in various states of transcendence of many facts which might often be perceived as fictions, and such fictions as are perceived as facts, and the more people become aware of such things, through various paths of discipline and dignity — the more laughter we are capable of. One quote I was just adding to more articles when I noted your comments is one by G. K. Chesterton, which I just added in the image here. I have been pleased with Chesterton and many of his splendid observations in The Man Who Was Thursday since I was 5 or 6 years old, which represents a time when there was an explosion of my awareness of MANY significant thinkers, including G. B. Shaw, with whom he often debated, and laughed. ~ Kalki·· 12:40, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
You seem to be suggesting that we laugh when we are superior (divine). ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:04, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Actually, I am indicating we laugh when we are within states of superiority to many situations or circumstances — NOT necessarily to any particular persons or people. I have been laughing, because of many mystical and rational discernments, and sometimes, but not always, at the often disturbing lack of them in others, since I was an infant. Since that time, I have had many very transient and eternal senses of many things, including Identity, Self, and many complications of Absurdist and Semiotic complexities in perceiving MANY diverse forms of Signs of the Times of our Lives. ~ Kalki·· 13:11, 3 March 2014 (UTC) + tweaks
I just reviewed my earlier comment, and revised it slightly, for clarity and accuracy. I would state that the lack of mystical, ethical and rational discernments in others, and which often produce so many other problems and tragedies, are such things as I am actually least inclined to often laugh at, and only briefly when I do, but the ability to laugh at them, and my own sorrows and frustrations, and transcend them with various forms of awareness of many diverse beauties and truths of reality, is what leads me on to various forms of serenity, and enduring joy and appreciation, including those to be found in the greatest forms of laughter, delight, joy and happiness, in which there is much vitality, much compassion, as well as passion, and little or no needless callousness, and no malice at all. ~ Kalki·· 15:24, 3 March 2014 (UTC)


Antro della Sibilla cumana.jpg

Hi Kalki. I replaced the image at right with this in the Virgil article, but only now do I realize that that is actually the entrance to her cave! I think it was you who added it, so I thought you should know; in my view they are both good pictures. ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:18, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

In this case , I definitely much prefer the actual cave image, to the imaginative painting. The image brings back many memories to me, and the place was very dear to me. The whole Cumaean peninsula, with what ruins remain upon the hillsides was one of my favorite places to be, and that cave and a few others around there were especially significant to me, when I lived in Italy, just a few miles north of the site. Though I actually "dreamed up" the name "Kalki" as a very young child, no older than 3 or 4, and had not yet learned of the significant lore around it, it was there, as a teenager, in a visit to Cumae, I had an interesting experience and definitely and determinedly decided to use Kalki (or a few variants I have used from time to time) as my primary "name", though I continue to use others as well (though I no longer edit with any other accounts here, some of which have names I do use elsewhere). ~ Kalki·· 21:29, 6 March 2014 (UTC) + tweaks
I see, if it means that much to you, I am happy to accommodate. ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:37, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. Even if it wasn't personally dear to me, I believe the cave image is the better choice, but I am always willing to recognize others can have different preferences for various reasons. ~ Kalki·· 21:42, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I had thought I had probably used that image elsewhere, at least once, and I had last year, on this QOTD layout for Wikiquote:Quote of the day/October 17, 2013:
Antre de la Sybille.JPG  
Antro della Sibilla 6.jpg

The job is to ask questions — it always was — and to ask them as inexorably as I can. And to face the absence of precise answers with a certain humility.

~ Arthur Miller ~

Antro della Sibilla 2.jpg
  Antro della Sibilla cumana.jpg

This gives a broader range of views of the site, but there are definitely better angles and perspectives to be found at many places on the hillsides. I know others cannot be as fond of its intricacies as I am, but I do not exaggerate when I say it is one of my favorite places in the world, where ancient essences remain remarkably strong. ~ Kalki·· 21:59, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

I've been to Italy before, but I was not even aware this place existed. It looks very picturesque, and definitely worth a visit. Who knows, maybe I too will be fortunate enough to see it some day, with my own eyes. (In a way, I and many other blessed human beings have already seen it, from afar, thanks to this phenomenon we call the Internet.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 22:16, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
By the way, though this is "officially" designated by most as the cave of the Cumaean Sibyl, there actually remains some dispute on the matter, and some arguments against it, for various reasons, and other caves that exist or might have once existed around the area are also sometimes considered possibilities. This first settlement by the Greeks on mainland Italy was also the place where the Euboean version of the Greek alphabet was spread to the Etruscans which the Romans adapted into the Latin alphabet. Though there are many more visually impressive sites all around Italy, there are actually many things of peculiar significance to that site which makes it historically significant, as a very odd cultural transformation point. The very significant Christian work The Shepherd of Hermas was declared by its author to have been inspired by visions he had on the way to Cumae. I have been meaning to do a page for it here for years — with fond memories refreshed, I might actually get around to it within a few weeks now. ~ Kalki·· 22:47, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

What is the process[edit]

  1. Kalki, I would like to learn more about the Wikiquote Main Page Quote of the Day process.
  2. I'm more familiar with the process at English Wikipedia, where articles of course must first become Featured Article quality, and then they are discussed at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests.
  3. How does a quote get from for example the voting process at March 6 --> to eventually be selected as a quote for the Main Page --> and then how is the formatting and layout decided upon?

Thank you for your time,

-- Cirt (talk) 01:55, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I certainly do not mind reasonable requests from anyone, and am happy to give you a review of some of the processes and a reminder of some of the ways in which they developed. Here, of course, there is no requirement that the articles represented become exemplary, ONLY that the quotes be among those ranked among the highest, through the ranking system displayed on each individual date page, such as the March 6 one you mention.
I will now be preparing a more extensive response, for your benefit, but I might be doing other things here and elsewhere — I tend to be a "multi-tasking" person in many ways. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 17:21, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
I have made some progress, but I am also busy with several other things, and I must be leaving soon, for probably a couple hours. I will probably resume work on that then. ~ Kalki·· 20:13, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
So what happens next after the example of the March 6 voting process? What is the next step in the process? -- Cirt (talk) 21:03, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Within the last few minutes I just came back after taking a bit more time on my excursion than I had thought I would. Amidst many other activities and concerns, I actually had some thoughts on how to finish up tomorrow's QOTD layout as I was out on some daily travels. I will likely get a little bit more done on a response to your query soon, but I am nearly simultaneously attending to MANY other things as well, and probably will be leaving again within an hour or so, and actually am not sure when I will have time to finish, but it should be within the next half-day or so. Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 00:40, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Oh, I didn't mean the particular upcoming next QOTD layout for tomorrow. I meant what is the next step in the choosing of the QOTD and the layout process, in general, after the example at March 6? -- Cirt (talk) 02:45, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I understood your query, and have begun to address it in what I believe will be a sufficient and appropriate manner, — but there were other things with far greater priority for me to attend to, and I have to leave again in a few minutes, so was using what time I had to get a few relatively small things done here, before leaving. As I said, I might be able to get back to it within about 12 hrs or so — but even that isn't a commitment — just an expectation. ~ Kalki·· 02:54, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Understood, please keep me posted as to your progress, I'll revisit later. Thank you, -- Cirt (talk) 04:36, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
As I have indicated at times, I have been developing responses to your enquiry, and actually came up with an array of them, with varying aspects, which I have considered developing in various ways, for your benefit, and the benefit of others, but undecided as to which might be best to use for the greatest benefit for all, and I just within the last few minutes awoke from a brief nap, with MUCH more clarity and resolve about how to proceed with MANY things I am involved with, including that — but I believe, even you will be able to soon clearly perceive, that many of the OTHER things I believe I actually MUST attend to right now, and in coming days are MUCH more important than giving an immediate and thorough response to you, right now. I know this might frustrate you, at present, but I truly believe that within a day or so, I might be able to give you a very clear indication as to many things relevant to your enquiry, and many other things, and that perhaps even within a week or so, I probably will be able to have provided enough information here and elsewhere, that even you, who have long been something of an irritant to me, in your rather extensive defamations of me, my character and my earnest efforts, will likely be able to perceive that MANY of the other things I have been involved with, and AM involved with, truly have been far more important than immediately responding extensively and directly, to this particular request — or many other demands which have been made upon me in my life, by some FAR more irritating or dangerous to my welfare or the welfare of others, than you have ever been, or could actually ever be. I would say that I myself have entered into new and important stages of awareness and activity just recently — and that presently — I truly am ready to take off like a rocket, to use a quite apt figure of speech... but I have not time to indicate all that I mean by those words, but provide them to give some indications of my earnestness, as I sincerely assert to you: may you soon come into the ways of ever greater Blessings. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 06:14, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Alright, sounds good, please do keep me posted, -- Cirt (talk) 06:40, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
I obviously have not gotten around to such actively assertive responses in regard to the inquiries as I had initially intended, but I have been MUCH busier with MANY recent developments than I had initially anticipated within the last week. I just awoke within the last hour from perhaps 3 or 4 hours sleep with definite ideas of how to further respond here, as well as to finish up on many other things of somewhat greater urgency and importance in coming days. I make no firm commitments to when I will be finished with any of these, because there are actually many complications which require MUCH consideration and extensive time, but I certainly expect to have devoted considerable effort to this and many other things within the next few days, and might actually have a sufficient response posted here soon. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 13:44, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for the update, please keep me posted, -- Cirt (talk) 15:05, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
Okay, it's been over one (1) week, with no answer to my original question. -- Cirt (talk) 18:35, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

and the ANSWER is: Thought and respectful consideration — I fear that might seem a bit alien to you… but so it goes...[edit]

Dr Manhattan symbol.svg
Everything is preordained. Even my responses.
~ Alan Moore ~
~ Watchmen ~
Felix VF-31 logo.svg PUBLIC SERVICE WARNING! VERBOSITY ALERT! Proceed to complex thought at one's own risk! Felix the cat.svg
Nifty banner, eh? I think I might make a few variants somewhere in my user pages to interject a bit of humor into things from time to time.
FA-18 Super Hornets of Strike Fighter Squadron 31 fly patrol, Afghanistan, December 15, 2008.jpg

I have great faith in Humanity and for every human being's capacity for good will, but frankly, because of past experiences with you, and others with similar observable personality traits, I am NOT actually inclined to trust you to have any great level of good will, nor likely to soon attain any strong and reliable forms of such. In recent days I genuinely have been very busy with many other things, and yet also given a great deal of thought to various potential responses. I rejected some of my harshest impulses, and might have tempered some of these thoughts more, and added a bit more levity and emphasis on forgiveness of error, which I believe time will prove to be a genuine sentiment with me, had I more time, but I perceive that you are impatient for a response, and clearly feigning ignorance and some forms of incompetence, and I too wish to be done with this also, for now, and deliver this summation of the relatively simple and not hard to understand processes with an extensive review of how they developed, and what prompts me to make this sort of response, before leaving once again. In reviewing some of my work on this issue in the past week, I confess that I generally prefer gentle levity to harsh severity, when possible, but I know that it is not always appropriate, nor even remotely possible in all cases, and that no matter how much levity one might inject into matters, there remains a need for some harshness.

I will concede that I would probably have responded with MUCH more swiftness, had I actually believed I was conversing with anyone remotely resembling an honorably honest and forthright human being, but with a confidence based on long experience with your cross-wiki harassments and defamation of myself, your subtle or overt trolling of others, and what I take to be a deep rooted duplicity about many things, I must confess that I honestly believed this was NOT the case. I had actually already observed the failure of your similar inquiry, which, despite your objections and denials, I believe Ningauble quite correctly and accurately dismissed as merely "baiting" on his talk page. Even so, I actually did initially consider being far more magnanimous in my response than you even remotely deserved, and over a few hours of my time, amidst other tasks, I intermittently developed statements on how the QOTD selection processes had developed, some of which I present below. Yet I soon realized that even taking on the appearance that I had any naïve faith in your will to take whatever information might be provided to you as anything more than a means to further finesse your rather obsessive harassment of me and my contributions, and knowing I had FAR more important things to attend to, recalled the general admonition "DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!" and Scott Adams' sound advice: "Always Postpone Meetings with Time-wasting Morons" and put considerations of ways to further respond to your current maneuvers on a "back-burner" while addressing many other issues of MUCH greater importance.

I did spend at least a little time on it every day since, but despite some irritations, this consumption of my time has usually been more of an amusement to me, than a genuine consternation, but I will spare you a presentation of many of the details of why this was so, for now… but reflection upon it and related issues did prompt many ideas on how to deal with many aspects of many problems in the near future. There were actually many observations that I wrote about but have trimmed out for the sake of relative brevity.

I have long had what I believe to be a quite healthy contempt for the arrogant attitudes and actions of those not involved in processes believing they are the best people to find ways to dictate how others should do them. This is often because they are confident they have the support of people with similar disposition to constrain and control the constructive contributions of others, rather than make many themselves, beyond active support of often tedious proposals to further increase constraints and controls on those who do most of the actual work, to do it to such specifications as these self-appointed masters of others would like. Recognizing something along these lines is more likely your actual aim, as a further way to harass and limit me, personally, rather than any sincere interest in long term commitment to engaging respectfully and thoughtfully in the often extensive process of selection and presentation itself, as I have done for many years now, I yet present a brief summary of the ways in which selections of the QOTD have thus far been done, since 2003.

Electric steam iron.jpg
God is an Iron.
~ Spider Robinson ~

As you are probably aware, as one of the very few people regularly involved in the project for the first few years, I had begun making selections for the QOTD, on November 1 2003 with the above quote of Spider Robinson. I actually chose that under the pseudonym "MOBY" for many rather ironic reasons I will not presently elaborate upon, but the next one, and all those after, I chose as Kalki, and for a couple of years it was simply my own generally well-regarded and respected selections which were the QOTDs, though I began providing various means for others to make suggestions and proposals, which gradually evolved and developed, until most of the present system of ranking the suggestions available on the date pages, which anyone who wishes to do so can participate in, by either suggesting or ranking them, or preferably both, was well established in the 2005 - 2006 period.

After many years of very few contestations of my selections, I am still making the final choices from among the most highly ranked suggestions, and to the extent which I can find the time, I usually I try to look ahead at the suggestion pages and to study the options for at least about a week in advance, sometimes more. With what knowledge I have of images at the commons, or can likely find there, I begin to consider and develop concepts for how various quotes that are among the highest ranked might be presented in ways which might help make the quote more interesting and intriguing to the casual visitor, as well as those well informed in various fields of interest, with such imagery as is relevant to the themes or subject of the quote. Usually I aim for clearly obvious relevance, but sometimes there are relatively obscure but still very relevant references I know that others might not immediately understand, such as those used in relation to Arthur Miller's quote in the previous section on this page — which depicts a place where it was the task of courageous heroes to ask questions of the Cumaean Sibyl, who would provide often ambigous indications of their destiny.

The particular date you chose for me to explain, March 6 has these QOTDs which have been selected in the past:

The mind is its own place, and in itself, can make heaven of Hell, and a hell of Heaven. ~ John Milton
  • selected by Kalki these were in the days where there were few workers and fewer assumption that people had the rights or duty to rigorously constrain and control individual efforts, and it was simply chosen as a good quote which seemed worthy of note, by myself, who worked without much dispute or contention for MANY years in making what others generally acclaimed as good choices.
Earth's crammed with heaven, and every common bush afire with God: but only he who sees, takes off his shoes, the rest sit round it, and pluck blackberries, and daub their natural faces unaware... ~ Elizabeth Barrett Browning (born 6 March 1806)
  • selected by Kalki — this too was still a time where relatively low participation left me with the selection process — though this is the year where much of the current "0 - 4 ranking" procedures began to be developed into their current state.
Give thought to life and liberty. ~ Cyrano de Bergerac (born 6 March 1619)
  • proposed by Kalki — selected as a top ranked quote
For all eternity has God not occupied His intellect with the cabbage's birth as well as yours? It also seems that He has necessarily provided more for the birth of the vegetable than for the thinking being... Will anyone say that we are born in the image of the Sovereign Being, while cabbages are not? ~ Cyrano de Bergerac
  • proposed by Kalki — selected as a top ranked quote
  You imagine that what you can't understand is either spiritual or does not exist. The conclusion is quite wrong; rather there are obviously a million things in the universe that we would need a million quite different organs to understand ... someone blind from birth cannot imagine the beauty of a landscape, the colors of a painting or the shadings of an iris. He will imagine them as something palpable, edible, audible or olfactory. Likewise, if I were to explain to you what I perceive by the senses you do not have, you would interpret it as something that could be heard, seen, touched, smelled or tasted; but it is not like that. ~ Cyrano de Bergerac
  • proposed by Kalki — again this was simply selected as a top ranked quote, but this year I began to add relatively small images to the quote, which at this point also were augmented with sound files, in a rather short lived experiment, initially begun at the prompting of others.
Watchmen Smiley.svg   Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Who watches the Watchmen?
~ Juvenal ~
Tunnels of Time.jpg

In this particular year of 2009, there were actually EXTENSIVE objections to this quote by Zarbon (talk · contributions), who at one point sought to rank it with a "0" as "unacceptable", against my ranking it a 4, but his preferences were eventually outvoted, by others who became involved, giving this quote a very unusually strong ranking of four 4's in its favor, and he eventually moderated his vote to a 2, which was a relatively high mark from him, as he often had a very strong antipathy towards quotes most others ranked highly.
[sigh] This was also the last year where there was a general solidarity of many of those who worked here, relatively harmoniously, even with quite diverse views, before assertions that my peculiarly principled penchant for working without obvious credit as Kalki, in ways and for reasons others could not generally understand or appreciate made me SEEM "untrustworthy" to further serve as an admin, in the estimation of sufficient numbers of others. I have always operated with what I believe to be general good will and clear discernment of such anarchistic ethical imperatives beyond and against many common and popular tendencies towards groupthink conformity as have often been engendered and manifest by various assertions of people I frankly viewed as poorly informed and improperly presumptive. Even with what little information they had to assess things, others plainly viewed me as improperly presumptive or perhaps worse than that, and perhaps in some way malicious or scornful of any ACTUAL policies or GENUINELY ETHICAL PRINCIPLES, rather than simply someone strongly disinclined to bow down abjectly to various forms of all-too-common and popular forms of prejudices and presumptions about many forms of human diversity and generally genial absurdist artistry, and such humanistic impulses and idealistic inclinations as I have ever been inclined to embrace and honor in rather subtle and obscure ways, against what I perceive to be the often quite poor logic, and irrational assumptions and unjust dictatorial tendencies (✷ I could use far harsher terms ✷) of others. I had observed since infancy that many people were rather distressed at others being rather extraordinarily complicated in their mental processes, and thus sometimes prone to unwelcome "verbosity" when they attempt to explicate many things they believe or KNOW to be beyond all words, and definitely beyond such casual and often deficient, flawed and incorrect notions as many people often embrace as "convenient" and "simple" and easy to "understand" — when in fact they simply make it easy to embrace many forms of lack of understanding, with ease, and such comforting perceptions of having knowledge or "proof" of absolute "correctness" in such ways as are NOT actually there.

Moreau - Prometheus.jpg
  A man contains all that is needed to make up a tree; likewise, a tree contains all that is needed to make up a man. Thus, finally, all things meet in all things, but we need a Prometheus to distill it.

~ Cyrano de Bergerac ~

Cyrano de Bergerac03.jpg
  • proposed by Kalki — again this was simply selected as a top ranked quote, with added images portraying the author and of one of the characters mentioned in the quote.
The Astronomer statue at Questacon (453725975).jpg   Most men judge only by their senses and let themselves be persuaded by what they see... On top of that, insufferable vanity has convinced humans that nature has been made only for them, as though the sun, a huge body four hundred and thirty-four times as large as the earth, had been lit only to ripen our crab apples and cabbages. … Do people really think that because the sun gives us light every day and year, it was made only to keep us from bumping into walls? No, no, this visible god gives light to man by accident, as a king's torch accidentally shines upon a working man or burglar passing in the street.

~ Cyrano de Bergerac ~

  Apple orchard.jpg
  • proposed by Kalki — again this was simply selected as a top ranked quote, with added images relating to the theme of the quote.

In early 2012, you entered another stage of harassing me, removing the layout I had chosen for the 3rd of February, and stanzas on The Day the Music Died by Don McLean. I was too busy with other things to contend about the matter at that time, and further developments here left me so disgusted at the growth of dictatorial efforts to constrain the contributions of others, in clear betrayal of fundamental wiki-principles, that the last image layout I did for 2012 was the one for Groundhog Day:

Icon Labirinth of Soul (Russia).jpg   Dearinth Goddess.png

I will tell you what I will do and what I will not do. I will not serve that in which I no longer believe, whether it call itself my home, my fatherland, or my church: and I will try to express myself in some mode of life or art as freely as I can and as wholly as I can, using for my defence the only arms I allow myself to use — silence, exile and cunning.

~ James Joyce ~

Cristo degli abissi.jpg

  Revolutionary Joyce Better Contrast.jpg

Thus the quote by the master artist Michelangelo, which might have been accompanied by at least a few of his most notable works had no imagery at all:

If people knew how hard I had to work to gain my mastery, it would not seem so wonderful at all. ~ Michelangelo

After a long hiatus, where because of your acts of aggressive suppression, with no actual consensus to do so, and others apathy about it, I had simply in profound disgust at was going on, dropped the efforts to enhance the QOTD with images, I yet incidentally had begun using images again at the start of March 2013, but had not yet got into the habit of engaging in the time consuming thought processes of doing so daily, until later in the month, so the quotes for this date in 2013 do not have images either.

A famous writer who wants to continue writing has to be constantly defending himself against fame. I don't really like to say this because it never sounds sincere, but I would really have liked for my books to have been published after my death, so I wouldn't have to go through all this business of fame and being a great writer. In my case, the only advantage to fame is that I have been able to give it a political use. Otherwise, it is quite uncomfortable. The problem is that you're famous for twenty-four hours a day, and you can't say, "Okay, I won't be famous until tomorrow," or press a button and say, "I won't be famous here or now."
~ Gabriel García Márquez ~

Later in the month, I finally did resume using images on a daily basis, with the quote for the 26th of March:

Dearinth Goddess.png
The very scientist who, in the service of the sinful king, was the brain behind the horror of the labyrinth, quite as readily can serve the purposes of freedom. But the hero-heart must be at hand. … Centuries of husbandry, decades of diligent culling, the work of numerous hearts and hands, have gone into the hackling, sorting, and spinning of this tightly twisted yarn. Furthermore, we have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us — the labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.
~ Joseph Campbell ~
  JUL Iris Soul Palm.png

The rest of that year proceeded with general appreciation of my work, despite a few committed critics or adversaries of it persisting, such as yourself, from time to time, and after failure to gain much traction to constrain the presentations last month by chiming in on the 4th of February at the village pump, and then initiating another round of discourse on the 15th of February and many aspects of our past contentions being discussed at "Image discussion (aka Cirt vs. Kalki)" at the Admins noticeboard. You then pestered Ningauble, as noted earlier above, on the 6th of March, and being rebuked there, attempted to bait me here, in a similar way, with an ostensibly more respectful demeanor towards me, as is often the case, despite what I gauge to be a generally cynical disposition to be insincere in many of your assertions.

Zodiac pan1.jpg
360-degree Panorama of the Southern Sky edit.jpg
The Moon and the Arc of the Milky Way01.jpg
David Gilmour and stratocaster.jpg

Who are you and who am I
To say we know the reason why
Some are born, some men die,
Beneath one infinite sky?
There'll be war, there'll be peace,
But everything one day will cease,
All the iron turned to rust,
All the proud men turned to dust,
And so all things time will mend,
So this song will end.

~ David Gilmour ~

  David Gilmour in Munich July 2006-ed-.JPG
David Gilmour in Munich July 2006-5.jpg
  • proposed by Kalki, after a suggestion by bystander for something by David Gilmour. This quote for this year I illustrated with a couple of the available photos of Gilmour — a fairly good recent one (which not only I, but others as well, found favorable, it being the lead image in his Wikipedia article), and one is his younger years, in a similar pose. The imagery selected had to do with his work throughout his years in Pink Floyd and some of the themes of the particular song quoted.

In general, in making suggestions, considering all of them, and thinking of ways to present them, I work a lot, and think a lot about what options of indicating significant truths are available through various means. I know doing so without being deferential or submissive to those few more interested in "ruling" over others within any possible situations, can create resentments among those who generally DO wish to do so.

I genuinely seek to inform, and properly influence others in gently inspirational rather than commanding and dictatorial ways, and I certainly do not often seek to control and constrain others, nor assist others in doing so, beyond the very limited degrees which are actually socially and ethically necessary to prevent grievous harm to human liberties and their proper rights in any environments. I have to laugh sometimes when people are prone to cry "Wolf!" and seek to cause a stampede of panic or create mobs with fear, resentment and hatreds towards others — but that wears thin after a while and especially when the Big "Bad Wolf" often turns out not so bad after all, and a danger only to some of the powers born of deceit, of those who wish to dominate others through various distortions or outright lies.

Though I generally seek to harm or humiliate no one needlessly, against the ignorance, confusion and arrogance of such people I regularly fight, in what ways I can, and offer what forgiveness I can, because I am sincere in my devotion to forgiveness and acceptance that with such ignorance and confusion as exists in them they had little choice to be other than as they have been — but I am not inclined to grant much pardon from my suspicions and reserve in dealing with those whom I have good reason to believe remain insincere in many vitally important professions, and definitely retain a preference for those I trust to be honest, more those who can put on pretenses of of being civil and civic minded — in their efforts to constrain others.

I know that there is much more I would like to make clear, but do not feel I have the time to do so right now — and have to get busy once again attending to other things. I will close with a quote from one of my favorite masters of levity and wit:

I sometimes tackle ideas and notions that are relatively complex, and it is very difficult to be sure that I am conveying them in the best way. Anyone who goes beyond cliche phrases and cliche ideas will have this trouble.
~ R. A. Lafferty ~

Cernunnos - by Jeroen van Valkenburg.PNG
So it goes
Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 22:44, 18 March 2014 (UTC) + tweaks
You know Kalki, I have observed that Cirt has chilled out quite a bit over the past few months. You might want to give him the benefit of the doubt on that. His questions and comments to you in this exchange have been professional, so I see no reason for you to conduct yourself otherwise. BD2412 T 03:34, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I am always ready to give most people the benefit of MANY sorts of doubts about my own assessments of evidence and situations — even when they have a long history of not doing so to others — including myself, but giving others the benefit of a doubt is not actually the same as putting a great deal of confidence in any trust in their statements. Cirt, like a few other people I have had far more direct contact with in my life, has often exhibited great skill at presenting adept shows of "professional courtesy" and professions of good will, even while exhibiting directly contrary testimony and indications to others.
I am NOT closing the door to further dialogue, on many matters, even though in the past he has done all he can to ABSOLUTELY exclude me from any consideration on MANY occasions, but I am not going to pretend I perceive a strong reason to trust his general good will at this point. I am quite aware people can change their disposition, sometimes rapidly — but I do not pretend to have great confidence in them doing so, especially with some forms of attitudes clearly evident.
If you actually would examine a few of his statements regarding me to Ninguable, just prior to these more "polite" and reserved statements to me here, I think you might have a clearer idea of what I believe to be his general disposition and intentions at this point. I am never opposed to more people getting involved in processes for the sincere benefit of others, but I am generally opposed to people who haven't been involved, clearly aiming to set rules that constrain and limit the ways other people who have been involved in doing things that have been generally acceptable, appreciated or acclaimed, can or cannot proceed in doing them, because a few of those most actively hostile can ally to suppress long existing options.
I know that with a bit more time, I could have done a better job at trimming away some harshness and adding more levity, but believe that mixing a bit of humor in with some of my harsher observations helps to exhibit I am not entirely bitter — and willing to joke a bit about my own limitations as well as those of others — and to indicate that I am always wiling to forgive — but though my willingness to forgive is nearly universal and my criterion for pardoning others from needless punishments is quite low, my criterion for pardoning them from suspicions is often quite high, and I am not prone to trust many people all that easily, even when I wish them well.
I think there are probably some grammatical glitches remaining in what I posted earlier, as I trimmed away much and threw this online before leaving — but I am a bit tired now, and might not do much here for a while, and sleep before I get around to attending to other things, and perhaps return here within a few hours of awakening. I really DO hope Cirt does prove capable of becoming far more genuinely civil and sincere than he seems to me, and that we can perhaps eventually find more things to cooperate on than contend about — but I do not claim to already trust that he is trustworthy in all of his professions. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 04:44, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Implicit in "the answer" lies the following somewhat more succinct answer to Cirt's question:  Kalki decides and, notwithstanding some objections to certain aspects of decisions made, there is a long history of letting Kalki decide.

I think this addresses the purport of Cirt's question, which was evidently not about Kalki's internal thought processes, since Cirt also asked me essentially the same thing and I could hardly be expected to answer for how Kalki thinks, but was about a putative wiki community process.

However, since Cirt already knew this answer, it was evidently a rhetorical question. Regarding BD2412's point about the professionalism of this line of questioning, it might be more so if the point this rhetorical device is driving at were addressed more directly. ~ Ningauble (talk) 14:57, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Ningauble, you say you don't presume to read Kalki's mind, please don't assume you know what I am or am not thinking. Don't apply a double standard and treat Kalki better one way and not me, please, thank you. I did not already know the answer. I know there is a voting process or something, but I wasn't sure on the process of how quotes get to the Main Page on this website. I thank BD2412 for acknowledging that my comments here on Kalki's user talk page have been professional, and I would ask others to conduct themselves in the same manner. I would hope we could foster a more collaborative community process together, something similar to what happens at w:WP:TFAR. -- Cirt (talk) 14:24, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
I do actually welcome your more cordial and respectful behavior on many things, despite many of my quite natural suspicions in regard to your actual attitudes. I have been away from the computer much of the day, and must again soon be leaving, but I did notice your proposal at the village pump, came up with a relatively brief 4 paragraph reply outlining some agreements and disagreements, but just saw someone else had posted an even briefer response, and might simply let that stand without further comment from myself, at this point. I genuinely do wish you well, even though I cannot pretend to agree with you on many significant matters, or to have a great deal of respect for all your endeavors, but I do genuinely hope good understandings can develop between us in the year ahead. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 16:21, 20 March 2014 (UTC) + tweaks
Thank you, I also wish the same for you, and us. -- Cirt (talk) 16:52, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
@Cirt – Perhaps you forgot about the many discussions you participated in, where Kalki's unilateral handling of the presentation has been remarked by yourself and others. Anyway, your idea for a WP:TFAR-like process is well worth discussing, and I am pleased to see that you have directly raised the issue at the Village Pump. Perhaps there will be some progress on the real question:  How can the process be improved? ~ Ningauble (talk) 17:07, 21 March 2014 (UTC)


Kalki, thank you very much for the appreciation of my articles, and in particular the article on Karma. I am now going slow now because of a frozen shoulder problem. I have a suggestion that the main page quotes should also include themes.--Nvvchar (talk) 02:20, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Whatever rest you need is wise to take. You have certainly provided a great deal of worthy contributions to this worthy project lately, and I, personally am very grateful for them. I hope to get around to adding more to some of them in the weeks and months ahead. ~ Kalki·· 02:26, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

picture choice[edit]

He follows his father, but not with equal steps.
He follows his father, but not with equal steps.

Which picture do you prefer (left or right)? ~ DanielTom (talk) 14:22, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

They both have a similar range of color choices, and similar poses of key figures, though arranged differently, to significantly different effect. Enlarged, I would say there is much in the quality of expressions in the faces on those in the Barocci on the right to strongly recommend it, but much more clear drama of overall composition in the Batoni, on the left, as well as less anachronistic detail. For layout purposes, on a normal page, and IF only one could be used, I would probably recommend the Batoni, but not insist upon it. I pass the baton of liberty of choices to be made to you. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 15:44, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
They wouldn't make a bad sequence, if the Barocci were followed by the Batoni. ~ Kalki·· 15:47, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

I have just awoken in the last half hour, from a much needed sleep, despite having some rest earlier, when I checked in here and saw your message. As I had mentioned to someone else within the last few days, my days have been busy lately. I have had far more of some forms of activity in the last 5 days than I had anticipated clearly. I expected to be busy with MANY things this year, but did not actually expect to be quite so busy with quite so many of fairly important significance quite so soon. I expect that my presence here will nearly always be a daily one, and sometimes for several hours at a time, but I also expect it to often be more sporadic, with much briefer visits, as I attend to other matters on the internet, or more directly with matters in the material world.

As someone long inspired with MANY forms of mythology and legends, and ART, and with many particular affinities to the tale of Aeneas, and many elements of it, as well as the more famous ones of Odysseus, it is delightful to be reminded of them. Your query prompted me to check the WP pages of the artists, and I saw Barocci's Annunciation which I definitely LOVE the overall composition of, and will probably use somewhere in the months ahead. Now I will have to get attending to other matters, I once again anticipate a VERY busy day. ~ Kalki·· 15:55, 8 March 2014 (UTC) + tweaks

I prefer the left picture, Barocci's. ~ DanielTom (talk) 20:25, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
To each his own choice, on all matters — and you are the one actually doing the work upon the page. Blessings ~ Kalki·· 20:42, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Indeed—suum cuique. I change my mind easily, and might replace the picture, eventually. (I don't consider it work!) ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:04, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
I like both, so I changed the picture; it's a minor issue really. The first six books all contain wonderful episodes. The woman in the picture is Aeneas' wife, whom he loses, but later sees as a ghost. It is a moving passage, where Aeneas three times tries to hold her in vain, before she disappears. Conington translates it like so: She melted into night: / Thrice I essayed her neck to clasp: / Thrice the vain semblance mocked my grasp, / As wind or slumber light. Comparing translations of the last line of this second book, Conington clearly borrowed Dryden's "I yield to Fate, unwillingly retire, / And, loaded, up the hill convey my sire", rendering it: "I yield to fate, take up my sire, / And to the mountain's shade retire." There is a connection, between the endings of the second, and the eighth, books, but that again is the subject for another evening. Cheers, DanielTom (talk) 21:43, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
In fact, I just did some research, and it was easy to find again. Conington translates the last line of Book VIII (attollens umero famamque et fata nepotum) thus: "And high upon his shoulders rears, / The fame and fates of unborn years." So, comparing the two, there is a clear contrast of past (II) and future (VIII). (Perhaps I should be studying Classics, rather than economics?, but one can always read...) ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:55, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
On the images: I simply believe Batoni's work works better in the small format; as I indicated initially, I am more impressed with some of the faces on Barocci's at larger sizes. I actually might use his Annunciation somewhere soon, but I am still considering many options on many minor and major presentations I am working on, for here and elsewhere. I too am trying to finish up a few of these before leaving again, and I don't think it likely that I will complete some of these today. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 22:02, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Highly active period…[edit]

I have been away from home more than I had thought I would be much of the last week, and expect to continue to be very busy elsewhere for much of the rest of the month, so my activity here might be more limited than I had assumed at the start of the month. But I still should be a daily presence or nearly so. I am rather tired right now, and believe I will sleep for a while. ~ Kalki·· 06:07, 11 March 2014 (UTC) + tweaks

As is typical for me, especially in such highly active periods as I am now in, I did not sleep long. I awoke, arose, and set down this message, already filled with new ideas on how to proceed today and in coming days. I have much to do now — but only a portion are such things as I do here; thus my contributions today, and for at least several days yet, might only be sporadic. ~ Kalki·· 07:44, 11 March 2014 (UTC) + tweaksal

Ethical movement and Yoga[edit]

I did expect this observation from you on my additions to your article on Ethical movement/Ethical culture, a very erudite presentation, and your elaboration on this aspect in my talk page is very educative for me. As the first quote by Einstein dealt initially with ethics, I added some more quotes on ethics. I agree that my additions would go well with the article on Ethics and you are most welcome to shift it to that article. Yoga is a difficult subject to cover and I am trying to add mostly on the Asanas. You are welcome to add more as you deem fit. Thanks for the appreciation.--Nvvchar (talk) 09:52, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Happy π Day![edit]

He does love his numbers
And they run, they run, they run him
In a great big circle
In a circle of infinity... ~ Kate Bush

I meant to do something on these lines earlier in the day, but I have been VERY busy, and had some meetings to attend, and have been out twice already on excursions through several local towns, and have a couple more to do before the day is over, a bit closer to home. One short one I will take care of after I do a few things here, and one longer one, but one that might permit me to do a few more things here before I leave on it. In a "chance meeting" on my way home I discovered that it was the birthday of someone I've known for a few years, and now I am sure I won't forget their birthday.

I had expected to be VERY busy this year from the start, but NOT quite so busy with quite so many things quite so soon, but I am quite pleased that I am, and looking forward to progress on MANY diverse projects in the year ahead, despite the persistence of some obstacles and dangers. This is a day I celebrate as a day of new openings of new opportunities. I actually celebrate all days that way — but a few of them especially so — and this is certainly one of them. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 22:17, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

π day is long over, but the fun and pleasure and funniness of working with π remains. Amen. OM. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 03:58, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

Giordano Bruno[edit]

Diff – that, my friend, is absurd. ~ DanielTom (talk) 17:30, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

By the way, shouldn't the category be 17th century deaths, rather than 16th? ~ DanielTom (talk) 17:47, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Though many celebrations over the centuries have defied the technically accurate tabulations, he died early in 1600 which actually was the last year of the 16th century, and thus I reverted that change. As to absurdism, I accept your removal of that, at present, as I concede that I am inclined to apply the term a bit more broadly than most, but he clearly was a brilliant satirist who often ingeniously and ingenuously as well as sincerely and passionately played with the absurd uses and misuse of words, and I believe those who deal with open minds to paradoxes that play on the incapacity of those with closed minds to recognize various forms of truth, as Bruno valiantly did, actually deserve quite honorable designations as absurdists — those who know and accept that human beings must always deal with many forms of absurd stupidity which pass for wisdom, and try to do their best to reveal various forms of stupidity and wisdom for what they are; often employing parables and paradoxes about human societies and their relationships to the cosmos, and to each other. Somewhat similarly in this regard the early humanists and many modern humanists never called themselves humanists, the early Gnostics never called themselves Gnostics — and even the earliest Christians did not call themselves Christians. Many more incidents of modern terminology being applied to ancient practices and styles of thought abound, but as I stated, I am not contending on that matter at this point. I have to be leaving again soon, and just noticed your comments as I was preparing to take off again. ~ Kalki·· 18:34, 15 March 2014 (UTC) + tweaks

I see you reverted my change with all the final authority of a Wikipedia cite: "The 17th century was the century that lasted from January 1, 1600, to December 31, 1699, in the Gregorian calendar." I will use another that just touches on this recurring dispute, from another Wikipedia article: "Astronomical year numbering, used by astronomers, includes a year zero (0). Consequently, the 1st century in these calendars may designate the years 0 to 99 as the 1st century, years 100 to 199 as the second etc. However, in order to regard 2000 as the first year of the 21st century according to the astronomical year numbering, the astronomical year 0 has to correspond to the Gregorian year 1 BC." I really don't give that much of a damn about the issue now, but technically, despite increasingly common popular usage, the 21st century did not begin until 2001. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 18:42, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I reverted and gave the rationale there just before noticing that you had posted an explanation here. Feel free to revert back. I need time to consider what you wrote, and do some further research. (Exchanging rationales through edit summaries, rather than talk pages, was also not good, so I apologize for that as well.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 18:46, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Did you notice the peak of visitors to the page in the past few days? It is the effect of Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey, the first episode, which featured Giordano Bruno. I was happy to see this new version, even as a fan of Carl Sagan's original Cosmos, but I did cringe at their mischaracterizations of Bruno. I have to disaprove of introducing deliberate historical misrepresentations/distortions just to make a point. In any case, I look forward to the next episode. (Apparently, this new show has already become quite a hit amongst American teenagers, which is also good news.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 23:14, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

I haven't paid much attention to the page statistics in quite a while, but am glad that people are more interested in Bruno for whatever reasons spark their interest. Many errors that arise tend to fade away with time, and important truths remain. The quote you just added was one of the earliest statements of his which I was familiar with, and there are many others I have meant to add to his page but haven't gotten around to.
Right now I am just trying to do a few things I had thought of while out on my last excursion, before leaving again. I had initially planned to have finished up traveling today, by now, but a few things have come up, and I will probably end up taking at least one more. ~ Kalki·· 23:23, 15 March 2014 (UTC) + tweaks

Veda Vyasa[edit]

I tried to fit this Template:Infobox image Veda Vyasa, based on the template of images in the wikipedia article Dharma. Can you suggest a way out. I am in the process of developing this article.Thanks--Nvvchar (talk) 16:18, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I thank you for your continuing work here, in creating such pages. It appears that Wikiquote templates corresponding to Wikipedia "Template:Infobox image" and "Template:Image array" don't exist here, and I am not sure how to set them up, as I haven't dealt with such things in a long time. I am also not sure whether it is generally desirable to set up arrays on standard pages. I would recommend selecting some of the desired images out of the array and using them in a more standard fashion along the side of the page, for now. ~ Kalki·· 18:53, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Archiving your talkpage[edit]

Can you please do so? The sheer number of bytes is staggering, and places a lot of burden on our poor browsers and machines. It's also making it very difficult, nigh impossible to communicate with you if we were to have any concerns or private discussions. I'd also be happy to assist you in setting up archive talkpages if you just ask me. TeleComNasSprVen (talk) 07:31, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

I will probably archive some material today, and perhaps work on reducing my quote presentations further. There are probably a few other things I will attend to here first though.… ~ Kalki·· 10:10, 19 March 2014 (UTC)


I see that you've taken an interest in Panentheism, and I would truly be quite gratified if you'd take a bit of an interest in Pandeism as well, as I have tried to add some of the Chinese quotes from Wiki's page there as well (right at the end), and it isn't showing up right. When you have the time it will take.... Blessings!! DeistCosmos (talk) 03:24, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Pardon my delay in a response. I was just about to make one when I got called away from the computer, and am just getting back to it now, at least briefly. My personal perceptions, conceptions and general experiences incline me towards peculiarly complex forms of mystical monism allied to pragmatic assessments of the practical limits of any forms of individual awareness or appreciation of aspects of Ultimate Reality or Cosmos. Between mortal minds and their multi-dimensional perceptions and conceptions of things, it is most important that there be ethical relationships tolerant of a wide variety of inclinations and needs; that being the case, there are actually many cosmological and theologic conceptions quite acceptable to me, even though many might contain deficiencies or flaws from my personal perspectives. The most important thing among human beings is always an openness to sincere and honest dialogue towards greater awareness and appreciation of truths and beauty of ALL Awareness, Life and Love in all. Unfortunately there are many barriers and impediments to this, and like many mystics and pragmatists I have a very cautious attitude towards nearly any uses of words and labels, recognizing how malleable their meanings can be, though I recognize the practical need for such.
As to your attempts to add to the Pandeism page, there is no "Template:Qualifier" here, and I might make an attempt at restructuring the quotes into a more standard format here later. I still am attending to a few other things now. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 09:09, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
I have now formatted your additions to display properly, and also did some further editing and captioning to the images that were on that page. ~ Kalki·· 11:01, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, my brother!! It is remarkably improved, and I have provided additional quotations as well. Blessings!! DeistCosmos (talk) 01:35, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

for I have lived today[edit]

Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own;
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow, do thy worst, for I have lived today.

Thanks for adding this quote, and picture, to the John Dryden page so early on. I think learning English is worthwhile, just for reading Dryden's translations. When he takes poetic license, which is often, he surpasses even Virgil (although he doesn't admit this).

Alexander Pope is another translator who surprises me. Reading Portuguese translations (Couto's and Odorico Mendes') of the Iliad had a devastating effect on my estimation of Homer, but Pope somehow makes him readable to me again. I don't know Greek, but from what I can tell, Pope's version is a thousand times superior to the original. Having true poets translating the classics is a blessing few countries have, a treasure of the English-speaking world, and I imagine should be a great source of pride to England.

You were correct, technically, that 1600 is the last year of the 16th century. I reverted my change accordingly. Peace. ~ DanielTom (talk) 22:21, 20 March 2014 (UTC) P.S. I'll learn Greek so I can evaluate Homer. ~ DanielTom (talk) 19:56, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

I am quite often technically correct in disputes, but don't always press that advantage, because I can often see valid arguments in opposition to my stances, and know that sometimes one can be technically right in many ways, and yet also generally and profoundly wrong in many ways, and this is something many have yet to learn clearly.
As to Virgil and Dryden, I have long admired many of Dryden's observations in many regards, and his translation of the Aeneid was the one I happened to use after informing other people that Virgil was a favorite of some in acts of Bibliomancy, and having said that, the passage I opened to was this rather significant one in Book III, where Aeneas is receiving counsel to consult the Sibyl of Cumae, with the passage my eyes first fell upon in bold:
The mad prophetic Sibyl you shall find,
Dark in a cave, and on a rock reclin'd.
She sings the fates, and, in her frantic fits,
The notes and names, inscrib'd, to leafs commits.
What she commits to leafs, in order laid,
Before the cavern's entrance are display'd:
Unmov'd they lie; but, if a blast of wind
Without, or vapors issue from behind,
The leafs are borne aloft in liquid air,
And she resumes no more her museful care,
Nor gathers from the rocks her scatter'd verse,
Nor sets in order what the winds disperse.
Thus, many not succeeding, most upbraid
The madness of the visionary maid,
And with loud curses leave the mystic shade.

Think it not loss of time a while to stay,
Tho' thy companions chide thy long delay;
Tho' summon'd to the seas, tho' pleasing gales
Invite thy course, and stretch thy swelling sails:
But beg the sacred priestess to relate
With willing words, and not to write thy fate.
The fierce Italian people she will show,
And all thy wars, and all thy future woe,
And what thou may'st avoid, and what must undergo.
She shall direct thy course, instruct thy mind,
And teach thee how the happy shores to find.

This is what Heav'n allows me to relate:
Now part in peace; pursue thy better fate,
And raise, by strength of arms, the Trojan state.

Of Dryden's own works the last line of this passage has been one of my favorites since I was 5 or 6, and the rest is pretty good elaboration on the theme:

  • Oh that my Pow'r to Saving were confin’d:
    Why am I forc’d, like Heav’n, against my mind,
    To make Examples of another Kind?

    Must I at length the Sword of Justice draw?
    Oh curst Effects of necessary Law!
    How ill my Fear they by my Mercy scan,
    Beware the Fury of a Patient Man.

And now on this evening of the first day of Spring, I have to attend to a few other things… but hope to do a bit more here later… So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 23:59, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

@ Kalki: Sorry for the interuption, but I must express my gratitude for the above quotes. While the line Beware the Fury of a Patient Man. reminds me of a life motto of mine (Slowly, but steadily!), it was the Aeneid translation that caught my eye. The Aeneid has become a favourite of mine. Since I like it so much due to the beauty of the words and the images thus created by them I have to thank you from the bottom from my heart for the bold passage. So: Thank you very much. May You live long and in peace! --P3Y229 (talk) 01:17, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
I am always pleased to provide inspiring influences of the soul of All, in whatever ways I can. ~ Kalki·· 01:23, 21 March 2014 (UTC)


We are told, that Adam and Eve had two children: Cain and Abel. Cain kills Abel, (Saramago has a wonderful book on this,) but then he marries and has children of his own. The question is, whom did he marry? (His mother, Eve?) Actually, there was another child, Seth, and Genesis 5:4 tells us that Adam had "other sons and daughters", but, in any case, incest appears to have been inevitable. One is reminded of Noah's children, who also pretty much had to practice incest. (They didn't really think these stories through, it seems to me.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 19:50, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

So it goes . ~ Kalki·· 19:58, 22 March 2014 (UTC)


Thanks. I will be adding more on this theme. Is your article Eve specific to quotes from scriptural writings only or can I add sayings by others on the subject?--Nvvchar (talk) 10:31, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

The article is not "mine", but the project's — and of course you can add anything related to the subject — I just started the article as one of many that have long been neglected, and I hope to develop in the months ahead. You have made major contributions in the short time you have worked here, and they are very informative. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 10:35, 24 March 2014 (UTC)


Atheist, I could understand, but "Anglican"? Why? ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:28, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

I believe he reportedly declared himself "nominally" an Anglican in the same statement in which he indicated some form of "atheism." Again with an awareness and appreciation so complex as that of Burton, he could actually be signifying quite a range of things by such statements. I believe he always adhered to a Sufi transcendence of labels and words and notions as well, and probably saw no innate contradiction in respecting many of the rites and ceremonies and beliefs of diverse traditions to a great degree, knowing they "all are right" and "all are wrong" — to varying degrees about various things. ~ Kalki·· 21:35, 4 April 2014 (UTC) + tweaks
By that logic, I suppose Richard Dawkins is an Anglican too, not an atheist. Burton's words are the classic, "I am an atheist, but...", which is common even today, though clearly what is relevant in his sentence is the first part, not the apology that comes after the comma. ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:53, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
As I have stated, I take the whole account with a grain of salt — the account is testimony of a testimony, and there might be all manner of unstated or unperceived elements that were involved in the exchange, as there usually are in accounts of any events — especially those dealing with the innately complex concepts of various formal or informal theologies and philosophies. I dare say most people have not a clue about much of what I am talking about most of the time, but that isn't all that rare a human condition for anyone, despite the assumptions of many that they understand things "perfectly well" and are even well informed enough to make absolute judgements on matters which they actually know very little about, or have been extremely misinformed about.
As an absurdist, and one who has been one somewhat intuitively since the earliest years of my life, I know that there are always limits on what can be said and communicated — and those things which do often get indicated between people cannot always provide opportunities for the most clear or proper assessments. There are a number of ways I know I could demonstrate this, over weeks or months or years of exposition, where adhering rigorously to truth, or at least so much as ever can be provided by words, I could proceed to give numerous diverse impressions about actual events by simply adding a bit more information over time, so that others impressions of the facts would change radically — and yet never get around to revealing the most significant facts of certain matters, until I chose to do so, because I thought it an appropriate and helpful time to do so. I much prefer to be helpful to the welfare and vitality of others, whenever possible, rather than detrimental to it, but I know that often the most helpful of options can be to remain silent about many options or actualities. I am still juggling ideas of how to present many diverse ideas here, and what ideas I should refrain from presenting, and might never get around to presenting here in any clear manner, even though they might be helpful to at least a few. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 22:17, 4 April 2014 (UTC) + tweaks

Hello & Thanks[edit]

I was rechecking some work I had done, and saw that you had edited one of the pages I had worked on earlier. I've been away for a number of months due to my health & other problems, including a death in my family. Just want to say, it's nice to see that you are still contributing here. Thank you for the assistance you gave me in the past ... CononOfSamos (talk)

I happen to have awoken, and began checking things here a few minutes ago, and though I am sorrowed that such afflictions have occurred with you, am glad to see that you are editing here, and hope that what you encounter in the future can be more encouraging, and helpful towards happiness. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 11:11, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Very courious[edit]

Who is avoiding the discussion? Who is opening a pubblic discussion on Wikipedia in english or who is deleting the prod on Wikimedia? I believe it is the second one... I find your tone offensive and I am open to discuss about the quotes referred to Augusto de Luca and not about any success of deleting any page. You sound quite irritated, and, frankly speaking I do not understand the reason why. You used only personal attacks against me without spending a single word explaining the reason why these quotes must stay on Wikimedia. If you will use the appropriate tones and the appropriate arguments, I will be very open to discuss about it. If not there is not need you write me again, not here not in any other project. I already had enough of your insults. --Hypergio (talk) 17:02, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

I realize that you are not using your native language, and despite some lack of clarity in your expressions, will accept the gist of your comments as being for various reasons critical of my actions and statements, and what you can perceive of my attitudes. My apologies to you, also, at this point, if some things I have said or will say are not clear to you, for I concede that I tend to be "verbose" at times, and often try to indicate too many complex thoughts and ideas in words which cannot hold up to the demands of many of them well. I will state this much, quite bluntly, I am indeed sometimes quite irritated with the fact that many people feel increasingly comfortable using comments like "I find your tone offensive" and "You used only personal attacks against me" as they go about implicitly attacking the integrity of others, and not expecting to be rebuked for it as exhibiting perhaps more than a little hypocrisy. I accept and assert that you should be as free as you wish in criticizing me, my actions and apparent attitudes in whatever ways you wish, for whatever reasons you can find or imagine, however, I also assert that it should be my right and everyone's right to to criticize your actions and apparent attitudes, as freely as possible as well — and I find it appalling that many people have grown so timid and cowardly that they are not comfortable with such forms of freedom of expression, and are often subtly or openly hostile to it, often because they have become confident that there are enough people similarly intimidated by honesty and information as to be willing to join them in suppressing it in various ways.
Getting on to the issues of the images and the articles you seem intent on removing throughout the Wikimedia projects, in what I believe are a rather excessive and detrimental ways. The successful effort to eradicate the article at the English Wikipedia involved only a very few other people who took note of it at all, and who seem to have taken your rather strongly hostile assessment of it as if it were entirely valid. At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Augusto De Luca you even conceded he perhaps was a prominent photographer, worth having an article on:
"The photographer (maybe) can have its own importance but this article was created together with other articles on other Wikis and other projects such as Wikiquote as part of a global promotional campaign on Wikipedia. The article was existing on 557 different projects and, on some of them, it is under deletion or it is already deleted."
You made this remark, which I believe was somewhat misleading as the article had existed on the Wikipedia for several years, and yet seem to have succeeded by having two more people take note of the matter enough to vote to delete it.
The photographer clearly has been a notable and prominent photographer in Italy for some decades now, and though I myself might not have great admiration for many forms of attracting public attention, I have far less for forms of seeking to absolutely eliminate or exclude avenues of public attention to many people and the issues or arts and works and free play at life which they are involved in.
I now see that you have today also succeeded in having the article in the Italian Wikipedia deleted, despite their being some voices there who spoke up for what I consider to have been a far more moderate and proper stance of simply toning down what were considered to be the promotional aspects of the piece.
In what time I had earlier today, I scanned through most of the many images you tagged for deletion at the commons, and despite my irritation at your apparent zeal for making De Luca into an Unperson to the extent you can, I am not strongly inclined to go about defending every image you have thus far tagged. I will concede that most of those are probably of relatively little usefulness for the Wikimedia projects, as I was relieved to find you have not, at least as yet, had the audacity to tag for deletion some of the finer photographs of this artist available there, and seem to have thus far tagged mostly those which contained images of this person you seem to have become strongly resentful towards. Yet even some of these are clearly of good quality and worth, and useful in any articles about the photographer (which you seem intent on eradicating), or perhaps on photography or perhaps some aspects of Italian culture. As I stated, I can understand and accept some of your hostility to some aspects of the articles, and the apparent promotional aspects of some actions by someone, but I genuinely do consider it FAR more than merely distasteful, and often dangerous, when people become enthused with their abilities to eliminate and destroy many traces of the creative work and contributions of others, with relatively little fear of sanctions against them — or even HONEST CRITICISM of their ACTION and apparent WILL. I yet am willing to forgive even these, as they often know not much of what they actually do, but that does not make me less prone to actively oppose many of their efforts. Later, I probably will tag at least a few more images with such comments as I posted at my talk page at the Commons, but I must be leaving now. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 19:58, 12 April 2014 (UTC) + tweaks
Your point is clear and fair. My concerns are the following: if I believe that something has not the right to exist on Wikipedia italian or on any other project for the best of that project I will try to find the discussion and not to do anything sneaky; I do not think it is my fault if nobody was interested in the deletion of the page on Wikipedia in English. It is under deletion in Dutch and in Spanish as well but I did not do anything. On more of 230 pictures I proposed the deletion of 51 only on Commons. If I really had something personal against de Luca, wouldn't you think that I would put a bigger effort. I just think that Wikipedia and all related projects received a massive promotional attack and my only goal it was to make a boundary on what should be pubblished and what shouldn't be. Concerning the insults, please, read what you wrote: WTF? — this is part of a goddamned ridiculous campaign of petty-minded idiots, IMO. — Bring it to Vfd if you wish — as the Deletion at WP seems to have occur there with only 2 hostile votes and very little attention in the last week and tell me how do you find this sentence. Cheers --Hypergio (talk) 08:56, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
I find it an honest expression of irritation and contempt towards what I do consider to have been needless and detrimental actions, and it appears others at the Wikimedia Commons agree with some aspects of such assessments. I genuinely believe if people were less timid about being honest, and less prone to find ways to slyly or naively punish or suppress various forms of honesty, because there are many of these which do not necessarily flatter them or many of their expectations or pretensions, there are many situations of needless confusion and error which could easily be avoided. Though I had stated I wasn't going to challenge all the nominations of images for deletion which you began, I am yet relieved that these have now been closed, because of more detached and broader perspectives exhibited by responsible individuals and admins at the commons. I will probably review a few more things soon, but I have been very busy today, and I have many other tasks to take care of, but I probably will be back to editing here within a few hours. Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 01:38, 14 April 2014 (UTC) + tweaks

Busy again…[edit]

In the last few days I have been a bit busier with other things than I anticipated, and I am likely to remain far more busy with "offline activities" for at least a few more weeks. I will still be checking in here on a nearly daily basis — but I probably won't have quite as much time to do things here as I have recently had, and might often be here for only a few minutes at a time. This is just a note in regard to that, as I am uncertain of how much time I will have to do things here today, and might be leaving soon. ~ Kalki·· 11:42, 15 April 2014 (UTC)