In the explanatory paragraph, I have added that Allah was the god of the Moon in pre-Islamic times. This has been repeatedly deleted by Islamic users at Wikipedia time and again in the past.--Inesculent 13:04, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
- Like many terms referring to deity, the origins and meanings associated with the term Allah are widely disputed. I have used the intro from Wikipedia, and removed quotes and links that are plainly primarily the expression of views about zionism and terrorism, rather than Allah or God, and one to a very un-authoritative and poorly maintained non-Wikimedia wiki with less than 500 registered usernames, which seems to have provided much of the previous intro. This article as it existed was not merely a case of "pushing the envelope" but of going far beyond it in the effort to push a particularly anti-islamic or anti-religious agenda. ~ Kalki 14:25, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Allah's Apostle and Jews against him
- The Prophet of Allah has promised us that the Jews will gather in Palestine, and that the Muslims will fight them, and totally kill them. Even the stone and the tree will say: "Oh Muslims, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him." You might tell me that I am relying on supernatural hadiths. I believe this is not supernatural but is the core of our belief.
This quote was removed by a user. I ask myself why. As if it was made up? This quote is quite famous. Here is the primary source.
- Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight wi the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.
This quote is really seen through a narrow lens. When I first became Muslim I thought that this is what it meant. One day there would be a tremendous Muslim uprising and Muslims all over the world would descend upon Israel and kill all of the Jews and every thing would be perfect in the world. Jesus would set the world straight and we would all sit around the campfire singing kumbaya. However that is not how this is going to go down. To understand this reference you have to go to the Quran which will put this in context. In this hadith the Prophet does not say Muslims, he does not say Believers, he does not say Muhsinoon he says Abdullah (i.e. Slave of Allah) which is a term that Allah uses for anyone who is doing his bidding. We are all Abdullah, or have the potential to be (yes even you Atheist) as none of us can escape His grasp. We can neither escape our final destination and Allah does with His creation what he chooses. So to put this promise in context you have to go to a context where it was used before.
In Surah Isra 17:4 And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, "You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness (arrogance). 17:5 So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours - those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.
The reference here is the twin falls of Israel in past times as it wasn't relevant when the Quran was revealed as there was no Jewish state. The statement to focus on here is "servants of Ours" or 'Ibadinah plural or 'Abd singular or in reference to the person of ownership 'Abdullah. Now we can go back in history and research with assurance that the people who sacked Jerusalem twice weren't 'Muslims' they were Romans in 70 AD and with all of the partying they did surely NOT Muslims. Sacked before that by the Babylonians again NOT Muslims. After that they were sacked by the Christians in 1099. Conclusion, All NOT Muslims. So we can go back and place this verse in context. We find that the people that will be killing Jews wholesale during this conflict, will most probably be every available human on earth that can find their way to Jerusalem. Which would answer contextual reference around Rabbinical refrain of "everybody wants to kill us."
This event happens after all of the markets crash, armageddon ends and the anti-christ dies eliminating any deception to who was actually at fault for most of the BS wars our sons die in, which would obviously piss a lot of people off hence the slaughter.
--Inesculent 14:58, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
- I never indicated any belief that the quote was "made up" — I did indicate what I believe to be pretty obvious: that its use was primarily an extremely narrow POV agenda-pushing. The quote mentions the belief that "the prophet of Allah" justified some modern extremely anti-jewish and pro-terrorist stances. It is not a quote about God or Allah. With God, Allah, and religious or anti-religious views being used to justify all manner of absurd things, there would be no end to the quotes one could include under all these subjects if one does not stick primarily to dealing with quotes about the subject — not about some incidental lunacies that some fanatics might seek to justify by some divine or anti-divine cause. ~ Kalki 15:24, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
- Who knows? Maybe Muhammad woke up one day and said, "I want to elevate Allah above other gods and discredit the 359 gods. Later, when Allah reaches his/her/its apotheosis, then I will start Islamic extremism. Thereby, I bring down the god and Islamic morals which I was promoting yesterday." I am speculating with this quote. It is possible, though. Maybe I am wrong because Islamic extremism doesn't bring down Allah; plus, who gets to define "Islamic extremism"?--Inesculent 15:43, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
- You are arguing for an inclusion of nearly anything that might make some incidental or cursory reference to "Allah" and it is well established that this is not what theme pages should include. ~ Kalki 16:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Islamic extremism in implementing Allah's will
In fact, Karen Armstrong argues in Muhammad: A Prophet for Our Time ISBN 0060598972 or ISBN 978-0060598976 that Muhammad was a moderate. "It wasn't that they were Jews but that they were traitors".--Inesculent 16:00, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
- I am well aware of Armstrong's views on this and many other things, but her views, your views, and my views don't make the quote you were adding anything other than an anti-Jewish, anti-Israeli, and pro-terrorist quote, NOT one about "Allah" save in a very strained and over-reaching way. ~ Kalki 16:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)