Talk:Catherine of Siena

From Wikiquote
Jump to navigation Jump to search

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Catherine of Siena page.


These should be provided with sources before being moved back into the article.
  • Sometimes God punishes us by granting our wishes.


"Be who God meant you to be and you will set the world on fire." As quoted by Bishop Richard Chartres in his sermon to the Royal Wedding congregation at Westminster Abbey (29 April 2011)

It's well enough documented that the bishop attributed this to the saint, but I can find no evidence that this saying has any genuine connection to Catherine of Siena, or any reference to it from before the royal wedding. What's the proper method on Wikiquote for challenging such a quotation? In particular, what's the burden of proof required before Wikiquote can call it disputed, or misattributed? --Amble (talk) 00:42, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've been unable to find such a statement in her Dialogue or her correspondence, or to find a suggestion as to where in Catherine's writings it is meant to be found, or any reference that doesn't go back to Bishop Chartres. --Amble (talk) 00:31, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
One can conclusively show it is disputed by citing a reliable source that disputes it. Failing that, one can emphasize that it is not a direct quotation of something he heard her say himself, by labeling it an attribution like this. ~ Ningauble (talk) 13:38, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I haven't managed to find a reliable source that disputes it (or confirms it, for that matter). I haven't edited Wikiquote before (although I have written and edited sporadically on Wikipedia), and I understand that Wikiquote's original research policy is somewhat different. Since Catherine's works are finite and searchable, is it accepted for Wikiquote to make note of whether the quotation is or is not found in any of those sources? Are there guidelines for how to do this? --Amble (talk) 16:13, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The other quote on this page, "All the way to heaven..." seems to be no more verifiable. Dorothy Day attributed it to Catherine, but I can't find any more specific placement within Catherine works, and can't find such a statement in Catherine's works. --Amble (talk) 17:00, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I may have a lead on the "All the way to heaven..." quotation. Will see if I can find its origin. --Amble (talk) 17:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
For an example of the quote being used before 2011, see [1]. 04:20, 30 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Great. This is the answer. It was from a paraphrase used by Pope John Paul II at World Youth Day in 2000. The official text of the speech [2] notes that it's a paraphrase and links it back to the original text by Catherine in her letter 368 to Stefano Maconi. You can find it here: [3]. (A translation of) Catherine's actual words would be "If you are what you ought to be, you will set fire to all Italy, and not only yonder." It seems that this referred specifically to her desire for Maconi to become a monk. The paraphrase taken out of context gives a very different impression. --Amble (talk) 20:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]