Talk:Hartley Shawcross, Baron Shawcross

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Probably a hoax...[edit]

I did not yet add this quote to the article page, because I am not inclined to believe it credible, but do not yet have definitive evidence that it is bogus:

  • Step by step I have arrived at the conviction that the aims of Communism in Europe are sinister and fatal. At the Nuremberg Trials, I, together with my Russian colleague, condemned Nazi aggression and terror. I believe now that Hitler and the German people did not want war. But we declared war on Germany, intent on destroying it, in accordance with our principle of balance of power, and we were encouraged by the Americans around Roosevelt. We ignore Hitler's pleadings not to enter into war. Now we are forced to realise that Hitler was right. He offered us the co-operation of Germany; instead, since 1945, we have been facing the immense power of the Soviet Union. I feel ashamed and humiliated to see that the aims we accused Hitler of, are being relentlessly pursued now, only under a different label.

This has appeared on many political websites as having been in an Associate Press release about a "Speech in Stourbridge, England" (16 March 1984). Some of them might have even been getting their apparently false information from the Wikipedia article where this had been posted by IP on 3 August 2006, and only recently removed for lack of reliable citation. I have not posted it into the article, because it seems very out-of-character, and unlikely, and research done for Wikipedia indicates that claims it was quoted in an Associated Press release are very probably bogus. Even though the context of the statement seems limited to generally accepted indications that Hitler did not initially expect or desire war with Britain, and had thought of them as potential allies against Soviet power, I am very much inclined to doubt its authenticity. Such a statement, from such a figure would very likely have resulted in massive controversy, which many tabloids would have leapt upon with relish, and it would not be something which has only recently been appearing on the internet. Unless there is evidence from reliable sources found, to quote Shawcross: "Let us not foist this humbug on the world." ~ Kalki 15:44, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I searched the Associated Press archives for anything that contained the word "Nuremberg", and there is nothing containing that word in any 1984 AP document. Evidence that this is bogus? ~JosiahH


  • The new so called morality has too often the old immorality condoned.