Talk:Khizr and Ghazala Khan

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Wikiquote or WikiReblog?[edit]

Earlier today I removed extensive excerpts from a blog post of four days ago by Allen West, with edit summary "non-notable bloggery; not about Khan at all, but about what West would have said if he were give the stage, which he was not"[1]. It was restored to this article by Rupert loup with the explanation "Allen West is a is an American political commentator, former member of the United States House of Representatives. Pretty notable."[2]

To be sure, Mr. West is indeed a notable person; but that does not make everything he writes in his blog noteworthy. It certainly does not make a rant posted on the occasion of Mr. Khan's speech actually about what Mr. Khan said in that speech. (This is not just my opinion, see this analysis of the blogger telling us what the speech "should have presented" (Mr. West's own words, at paragraph 2)).

Regarding particular excerpts from the blog in the present article

  • "Mr. Khan, I’ve read our Constitution..." How is this about Mr. Khan, who asked whether someone else had read it? This is about Mr. West.
  • "Perhaps you should have asked President Barack Obama.... And while you were at it, Mr. Khan, perhaps you could have asked Hillary Clinton..." How is this about Mr. Khan? This is about Mr. West's opinion of those people.
  • "I found it interesting Mr. Khan, that you and your wife, an American Gold Star family, would take the stage to support a sitting president and one desiring to be president..." Quite a number of people addressed the DNC, and it should be no surprise that they support the sitting Democratic president and the party's nominee. This is about Mr. West's opposition to them.
  • "But in the military I know, we do not celebrate that which divides, but rather that which unites." How is this about Mr. Khan, when it insinuates ("but") that his statement against divisiveness is divisive?
  • "...there are others who could give testimony..." How is this about Mr. Khan? Again, Mr. West ignores his position against divisiveness – the central point of his speech – to accuse him of being divisive.
  • "You should have taken the time to explain..." How is this about Mr. Khan? There are lots of things Mr. West would like to say that Mr. Khan did not address.
  • "Mr. Khan, you had a moment to speak..." How is this about Mr. Khan? There are lots of things Mr. West would like to say that Mr. Khan did not address.
  • "You could have articulated how a 7th century savage..." How is this denunciation of the origins of the Muslim faith even remotely about Mr. Khan?

To be clear, I am not objecting to this content because I find Mr. West's blog post (nearly five times as long as Mr. Khan's full address) objectionable, though I do; I am objecting because it does not belong in this article about Khizr M. Khan because it is not about him. The blog post itself is not about him: it is a coatrack that ostensibly discusses its nominal subject; Mr. Khan's speech, but instead focuses on another subject entirely, what Mr. West would have liked to say if he were invited to address the DNC.

This is Wikiquote, a place for collecting notably quotable statements, not some kind of WikiReblog for spreading recent screeds that are ignored in mainstream sources by coatracking in other pages where they are not even relevant. ~ Ningauble (talk) 18:22, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

That is not a blog, is an open letter by a notable politician. And I saw similar quotes in Wikiquote. It's pretty notable given the context. Rupert loup (talk) 18:32, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Rupert loup, for a start, you can persuade me this material is "pretty notable" by citing some mainstream sources that actually quote the quotations included in this article. Then perhaps we can solicit a third opinion on relevance to the person of Khizr M. Khan. ~ Ningauble (talk) 18:52, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
I think that you are right. They are not related to Khan enough to be here. Rupert loup (talk) 19:43, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for reconsidering. It is easy to get carried away by all the rhetorical excesses in this campaign silly-season, but it is not too soon to begin sorting the ones that might be enduringly memorable and relevant to great themes of history from the ones that will be forgotten when the party is over and we recover from the hangover. ~ Ningauble (talk) 13:43, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

speaker clarification[edit]

If we're going to have a page about two people, I think it would be useful to somehow designate who is actually giving the quote. Aren't most of these statements from Khizr? There should be some way of making the rare quotes from Ghazala stand out. 15:04, 19 October 2018 (UTC)