Talk:Mustafa Kemal Atatürk
Peace at home peace in the world.
Mustafa Kemal was always against war and he thought that war was a crime until the independency of the nation and their lives were under threat.--188.8.131.52 07:25, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
- Like most pages on a person it delivers a chronological presentation of quotations, most of them admirable, so I do not see any need for a re-arrangement. The quotes do not present an imbalanced impression so far as I can tell, and as a whole indicate the expressions of a tough and rational warrior and statesman, and not those of a war-monger. Further quotes are of course welcome. ~ Kalki 15:03, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
- Some quotations are so far away from others something like much stronger from the rest. I think equally spacing between quotes is much more suitable. But seperation between different quotes has to be more than seperating two lines of the same quote, for readability. --Obsteel 13:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
This is the most important quote of Ataturk but does not exist here.
English: "Unless a nation's life faces peril, war is murder." Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK
Turkish: "Millet hayatı tehlikeye maruz kalmadıkça, savaş cinayettir." Mustafa Kemal ATATÜRK
(16 March 1923)"Adana çiftçileriyle konuşma Talking with farmers of Adana". Hâkimiyeti Milliye Newspaper.
Adana Çiftçileriyle Konuşma. Atatürk Araştırma Merkezi. Retrieved on 2007-10-19.
--Obsteel 12:58, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
- This quote has now been added, chronologically. ~ Kalki 14:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Chronological order for quotes is highly advised
New quotes should be added in chronological order, or in sections for chronologically arranged works.
Though there has been increasing disregard for the chronological presentation which is standard for articles and creation of "subject" headings for sections, this is not encouraged, and is generally discouraged, as it actually can severely complicate the sorting of quotes that only loosely fit into various "subject" categories. I intend to clean up at least a few of the articles with long standing sections in violation of this norm soon. ~ Kalki 07:13, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Quote Kennedy: source
The source of quote of Kennedy (below the main page) had been Youtube, but this was not working. In wikipedia there was a document ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ce/JFKennedy_on_Ataturk_1963.pdf ) which confirmed it, so I changed that with that wiki-source.
Atatürk quote "I have no religion …" being deleted or suppressed
An Atatürk quote on his religion that appears in his biography is being deleted or suppressed on this page. I have included a copy of it here should this problem recur. Écrasez l'infâme 03:13, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men.
- Quoted in Atatürk: The Biography of the founder of Modern Turkey, by Andrew Mango; "In a book published in 1928, Grace Ellison quotes [Atatürk], presumably in 1926-27", Grace Ellison Turkey Today (London: Hutchinson, 1928)
Quote removals of 2009·02·16
Originally comments on User talk:184.108.40.206:
"I have no religion, and at times I wish all religions at the bottom of the sea. He is a weak ruler who needs religion to uphold his government; it is as if he would catch his people in a trap. My people are going to learn the principles of democracy, the dictates of truth and the teachings of science. Superstition must go. Let them worship as they will; every man can follow his own conscience, provided it does not interfere with sane reason or bid him against the liberty of his fellow-men."
-Well, the first part of the quote is believed to be added later by some certain "shady characters" who tries to show Atatürk as an anti-religious type to alienate Turkish Nation to Atatürk in their plans to reformat secular Turkish Republic as a Islamic Regime (that a long story..). If you study Atatürk's life you would see that he is not against the religion itself but some certain superstitions told as if they are a part of the Islam which actually belong to Arabic Culture in it's darkest ages.
Furthermore his many other quotes contradict whit this certain quote. And there is actually no source to claim it's validity, other than Mango's book and Mr. Mango has not heard the quote himself but been told so...
By the way the quote:
This is Islam, an absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, a rotting corpse which poisons our lives.
Is simply asparagus and has no place here...
- The last quote seems to be correctly designated as spurious — but many of your other edits were deletion or alteration of published material, such as is improper on the Wikiquote project. You might believe your transcriptions make more sense, but we must quote published material — not "correct it" according to our understandings. ~ Kalki 03:13, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
- You are nothing but an imbecile Kemalist who tries to distort and censor Atatürk's statements. You probably claim to be modernist and secularist, but you can't even deal with the fact that Atatürk had no religion. The miserable thought train that is supposed to have gone through you is probably like this: - Having no religion is a 'bad' thing, - Atatürk cannot have such 'bad' qualities, he is the perfect human being, - Saying he had no religion is insulting him, - Islamists will use this to denigrate Atatürk, so even if it is true, it must be concealed. You are no better than those Islamists you detest with being so narrow-minded and full of contradictions.
- —This unsigned comment is by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs) .
- Please temper the impulse to engage in personal insults. It is not immediately clear who you are addressing, nor why, as the page, I believe, has long been corrected of the IPs edits. ~ Kalki 01:10, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
The same quote and more can be found within the notes of Commander Kazim Karabekir named "Pasalarin Kavgasi" The definition "narrow-minded and full of contradictions" may be an high amplitude impulse but it is well suited for people alike.
Wikiquote no longer allows unsourced quotations, and they are in process of being removed from our pages (see Wikiquote:Limits on quotations); but if you can provide a reliable, precise and verifiable source for any quote on this list please move it to Mustafa Kemal Atatürk. --Antiquary 18:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
- A nation devoid of art and artists cannot have a full existence.
- A nation which does not practice science, such a nation, one must admit has no place in the high road of civilization.
- Educate youth. Give them positive ideas of knowledge and science. You will succeed in getting the enlightenment of the future for them.
- Freedom and independence is my character.
- I am not leaving a spiritual legacy of dogmas, unchangeable petrified directives. My spiritual legacy is science and reason. ... What I wanted to do and what I tried to achieve for the Turkish nation is quite evident. If those people who wish to follow me after I am gone take the reason and science as their guides they will be my true spiritual heirs.
- I do not want to be recorded in history as the man who bequeathed a tyranny.
- A statement to Ali Fethi Okyar about the need for an opposition party (1930)
- I like a sports person being smart, fit and at the same time, having moral values.
- If I had not become the president, I would have wanted to be the Minister of Education.
- In any case, it is necessary to be victorious in education. The real salvation of a nation can only be thus.
- In order to stave off covetousness, greed, and spite, citizens the world over must be educated.
- It is only teachers who save nations.
- Justice is the infrastructure of proprietorship.
- No matter how rich and prosperous, a nation without independence cannot be subject to any behaviour before humanity, at a higher level than serving.
- Religion is an issue of conscience. Everyone is free to conform to the commands of their conscience. We show respect for religion. We are not against a way of thinking or thoughts. We are only trying not to mix religious affairs with the affairs of the nation and the state, we are avoiding reactionary actions that are based on evil intent and deeds.
- Science is the most reliable guide for civilization, for life, for success in the world. Searching for a guide other than science is meaningless, ignorant and heretical.
- Sovereignty belongs absolutely to the nation.
- Teachers: the new generation will be your devotion.
- The evils which sapped the nation's strength were wrought in the name of religion.
- Köylü milletin efendisidir
- The villager (peasant) is the lord of the nation.
- To write history is as important as to make history. It is an unchanging truth that if the writer does not remain true to the maker, then it takes on a quality that will confuse humanity.
- Unconditional, unrestricted sovereignty belongs to the nation.
- We, all Turks, born-democrats by soul.
- Where there is no freedom, there is death and destruction.
- Flags are not to be stepped on.
- We shall do it within five months. (After his speech about education)
- Democracy is the hope of the human being
- (Turgut Ozakman-That Crazy Turks)
- As they came, so will they go! (Turkish: Geldikleri gibi giderler!)
- (13th November 1918 - Bosphorus - When he sees that The Allied Fleet in Bosphorus)
- There are no hopeless situations. There are hopeless people. I never lost my hope.
"Choose science" quote
Even Elon Musk has attributed the following quote to Atatürk, but is there any actual source, or is this not a genuine Atatürk quote?
"If one day, my words are against science, choose science."
Propaganda about 'Armenians have no rights...' No context, wrong source, wrong translation.
1) 'Taken out of context' is an understatement for this quotation here. No context is given about the quote so it is very misleading. Context must be provided. You can add this for context --> From his speech in Hâkimiyet-i Milliye newspaper, in 1923, delivered in city of Adana, to the artists of the city. Atatürk emphasizes that during the Ottoman era, the importance of art was not understood. He says 'a nation devoid of art can not have a full existance'. Contrary to that, he explains, the Ottoman goverment often times would not be happy with muslims even becoming artists. He talks about how this thinking resulted with muslims being left devoid of art and non-muslims, namely Armenians, taking over the art quarries of the country. He explains how this is unacceptable and that art is a vital vein for a nation; that muslims, namely Turks, must work hard to advance and improve in art. He says 'Armenians have no rights over this fertile country, the homeland belongs to you' emphasizing further that the art quarries of the country belong to the Turks. He then mentions the land claims, the many wars fought by many nations for Anatolian peninsula, and the decisive Turkish victory over it. For out of speech context, the city the speech is delivered in is Adana, a war zone just 2 years prior. Atatürk after referring to the war and the victory in Southern Anatolia, against the French troops and Armenian volunteer soldiers in it, he says 'Armenians and others(who tried to conquer Anatolia) have no rights here, these fertile lands are Turkish homeland'
2) The source is partly wrong, needs to be updated. 'Reading Mustafa Kemal Atatürk on the Armenian genocide of 1915' is not a source for the quote. It is an opinion article about the quote. It can not be used as a source. So it should be deleted. The actual source is the newspaper that published the speech in 1923, called 'Hâkimiyet-i Milliye'.
3) The translation is really off here, it sounds like google translator. The quote in Turkish is 'Ermenilerin bu verimli ülkede hiçbir hakkı yoktur. Memleketiniz sizindir, Türklerindir. Bu memleket tarihte Türk'tü, o hâlde Türk'tür ve sonsuza dek Türk olarak yaşayacaktır.'
The translation should be 'Armenians have no rights over this fertile country. The homeland belongs to you, to Turks. This homeland belonged to Turks in history, so therefore it is Turkish and will live as Turkish forever.'
In the speech Atatürk is referring to the claims over land by Armenia and the art quarries being taken over during Ottoman era. So the correct translation would be 'have no rights over' as it emphasizes the sense of 'owning/claiming' because 'have no rights in' means as if he is talking about the legal rights of the Armenians in Türkiye which couldn't be further from the meaning of the speech. And translating the word 'memleket' as country isn't really accurate. For a more accurate translation 'country' --> 'ülke' 'homeland' --> 'memleket' 'motherland' --> 'vatan'. Prosperous isn't really the best choice of word, for the word 'verimli', 'fertile' would be more accurate. İzmir güvercini (talk) 20:07, 13 September 2022 (UTC)