Talk:Ratha

B

• Without such an understanding, we could often end up blaming the Vedic poets for indulging in hopelessly mixed metaphors (after Bergaigne (1936: 61), who complained of “the cacophony of the [hymns’] discordant metaphors”): what is this “ship” in which the A‹vins are invoked to take the supplicants to the “far shore”, while at the same time they are asked to keep their chariot yoked and ready to cross? (1.46.7–8) Are they supposed to load their chariot onto a ferry, perhaps? But it is, says the hymn, the “ship of our prayers” (1.46.7) (or hymns or beliefs), and the only way to the yonder shore is the “path of the truth” again (1.46.11).
  • Bergaigne in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019
  • Bergaigne, Abel. [1880 for the original French] 1935–36. “Some Observations on the Figures of Speech in the Rgveda.” Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute. 17(1): 61–83

D

• So should every occurrence of the word ratha be taken to mean an actual chariot? The allegory of Dawn’s or the Sun’s chariot rising through the heavens is obvious enough – but Dawn does not merely have her own chariot, she also showers “cattle, horses and chariots” (7.77.5) on her supplicants, among other treasures; by now, those cattle and horses are understandable (as light and energy), but what are those chariots?
  • Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

E

• What a difference this can make, may be illustrated with the debate on the evidence for horse-drawn chariots in the Rg-Veda and in the archaeological record. The pro-AIT argument runs that these are in evidence in the Rg-Veda, don’t predate the 2nd millennium in the archaeological record (leaving aside for now that the archaeological record is pretty silent on their first appearance, for none have been dug up from reputedly Indo-Aryan or Indo-Iranian settlements in Kazakhstan’s Andronovo culture, the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex or post-Harappan India), so that the Rg-Veda is definitely younger than 2000 BC. Against this, Talageri argues that spoked-wheel chariots are not simply in evidence “in the Rg-Veda”, as the Orientalists have known since the 19th century, but are specifically typical of its youngest period. The older parts know of carts, generally with four full wheels, but the chariots with two spoked wheels are a later development which must have taken place within the period of composition of the Rg-Veda, part of which predates their introduction.
  • K. Elst 2018. Still no trace of an Aryan invasion: A collection on Indo-European origins (2019) Some Unlikely Tentacles of Early Indo-European

I

• When the yoga teacher B.K.S Iyengar (2001(2): 47) writes, “The consciousness is like a chariot yoked to a team of powerful horses. One of them is breath (prånå), the other is desire (våsanå),” he simply builds on the same tradition.
  • B.K.S Iyengar in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

K

• Kazanas has repeatedly argued that the ratha in the Rig-Veda is not a two-wheeled chariot used in races and on the battlefield, but a cart, sometimes a large one for multiple passengers.
  • Kazanas cited in K. Elst 2018. Still no trace of an Aryan invasion: A collection on Indo-European origins (2019)

• As for the chariot, the basic assumption that the Rigvedic ratha was like the chariots of the NE or Europe in the 2nd millenium may be justifiable under the preconceptions of the AIT but it is not warranted by the testimony of the Rigveda.... All these details constitute the picture of a vehicle that is not at all like the (war) chariots appearing in the 2nd millenium in the NE.
  • Kazanas, N. (2002). Indigenous Indo-Aryans and the Rigveda: Indo-Aryan migration debate. Journal of Indo-European Studies, 30(3-4), 275-334.

• Chariots are said in the RV to be made of native timber: from the trees khadirá and siṃśápā (3.53.19) and kiṃsuká and Śalmalí (10.85.20). The last reference is the late 10th Maṇḍala but the first one is in an early Family Book, that of the Viśvāmitras. So right from the start, even according to the AIT scenario, even as the Aryans (allegedly) arrived, they fashioned cars from the wood of native trees; they did not bring chariots from abroad!
  • N Kazanas, INDIGENISM AND THE COLLAPSE OF THE ARYAN-INVASION-THEORY. THE ADYAR LIBRARY BULLETIN 2014-15

• Then unlike the narrow contraption of the, say, Egyptian chariot, the Rgvedic ratha is described as prthu ‘broad’ I.123.1; brhat ‘tall and big’ VI.61.13 ; varistha ‘widest’ VI.47.9. This is quite a difference. Thus it has space not for 1 only or 2 (i.e. the driver and the warrior with his spear and bow) but for 3 : it is said to be trivandhura (I.41.2 ; VII.71.4) and then to carry 8 astâvandhura (X.53.7) !
  • N Kazanas, INDIGENISM AND THE COLLAPSE OF THE ARYAN-INVASION-THEORY. THE ADYAR LIBRARY BULLETIN 2014-15

• A most telling piece is the figure on Seal No 3357 representing simplistically a man with outstretched arms standing on two six-spoked wheels. Parpola, who favours the “Aryan invassion” theory, identifies them as wheels “while realizing full well that the spoked- wheeled war chariot was a later invention of the Aryans” (1969: 24).
  • THE ṚGVEDA AND INDO-EUROPEANS Author(s): Nicholas Kazanas Source: Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Vol. 80, No. 1/4 (1999), pp. 15-42

• Kazanas sums up the situation thus: [...] the Rigvedic ratha “vehicle” is said to be not only prthu “broad” (1.123.1) and brhat “tall, big” (6.61.13), but also varistha [...] vandhura “widest [...] box/seating space” (6.47.9), trivandhura “three-seated” (1.41.2; 7.71.4; etc) and astavandhura “eight-seated” (10.53.7)! The only real-life, not mythological, ratha in a race we know is mentioned in 10.102 and this is pulled by oxen. Nowhere in the 1000 hymns of the `Rgveda is there one single mention of a real-life battle with horse-drawn rathas. Nor is there mention of a slim, light, two- or one-seated vehicle. (Even the Asvins’ car, anas, in 10.85.10,12, takes at least three!) The scholars of the 19th century translated the Rigvedic ratha (or anas) as “chariot” thinking of Greece and Rome, and the notion stuck.
  • Kazanas in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

L

• [B.B. Lal] documents how, contrary to Western opinion, the horse, supposedly the Vedic glamour animal, is attested in a number of Harappan cities, and the spoked wheel likewise through terracotta models.
  • B.B. Lal cited in Elst, K. in BR Mani: A Legendary Archaeologist: Prof. BB Lal Felicitation Volume, Delhi 2018. Also online at [1]

M

• Jeanine Miller, who sought to interpret the Veda’s spiritual experience, was, in my opinion, more faithful than Staal to the spirit of the hymns when she proposed that “the rite is often considered a ‘ship’ or a ‘chariot’; it is a means of communication, of bringing closer the two shores, that of the hither or terrestrial realm, and that of the beyond, or godly realm” (Miller 1985: 214)
  • Jeanine Miller, in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

P

• S. Piggott established the presence of a sophisticated type of vehicle with “one or two pairs of wheels with their axles... from the Rhine to the Indus by around 3000” (1992: 18).
  • Piggott S. 1992 Wagon, Chariot and Carriage London, Thames & Hudson. Quoted from Kazanas, N. (2009). Indo-Aryan origins and other Vedic issues. Chapter 9

R

• S.R.Rao found at Lothal “terracotta wheels ...with diagonal lines suggesting spokes” (1973:124).
  • quoted in Kazanas, N. (2003). Final reply: Indo-Aryan migration debate. Journal of Indo-European studies, 31(1-2), 187-240.

S

• Sparreboom (1985: 11– 12) leaned towards the latter view, but was candid at the same time: “The reconstructed picture of the Vedic ratha is not yet complete. A number of technical terms are not fully or not at all understood.”... “The Rgveda, in fact, offers countless examples of such metaphors, where the chariot stands for the word, the well-composed hymn of praise, the ritual ceremony or the sacrifice as a whole” (Sparreboom 1985: 20)
  • Sparreboom in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

• Frits Staal reminds us of three special chariots. First, the composer of a hymn describes himself as “he who constructs the high seat of the chariot in his mind” (with reference to 7.64.4). The second instance comes from the famous hymn of the wedding of Sµuryå, daughter of the Sun (Sµurya), which “relates how travels in a chariot made of mind (manas), whether it is to her future husband, immortality or the abode of Soma” (with reference to 10.85). The third comes from a deeply enigmatic dialogue between a (possibly dead) father and his (possibly alive) son; the former tells the latter about “the new chariot without wheels, which you boy have made manaså, which has one draught pole and goes in all directions, standing on it you are seeing nothing” (with reference to 10.135).
  • Frits Staal in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

T

• Indeed, Karen Thomson takes issue with Parpola’s “military interpretation” of certain hymns, in particular his translation of ratha in a Vedic verse as “war-chariot”: “In the total of nine passages in the Rigveda in which the words √vah [driving], rátha [chariot], and ásva [horse] occur together, the ráthas are imaginary, heavenly vehicles, drawn by imaginary, heavenly ásvas. Parpola’s specific translation ‘war-chariot’ for rátha is misleading. In none of these passages is the rátha a vehicle of war” (Thomson 2009a: 35). To her, the god Brhaspati’s chariot is “a figurative chariot: ráthas in the Rigveda often are.” It is indeed figurative, as it is not merely ratha, but rtasya rathah, “‘a chariot of Truth’ that brings light where before there was darkness,” in Thomson’s words (2009b: 84, with reference to 2.23.3). Indeed, it is not just the chariot that is associated with the Truth (rtam), but also the charioteer himself: rathir rtasya, or the charioteer of the truth, as Pusan is praised (6.55.1), sometimes of the “vast truth” (rtasya brihato), as is Agni in two hymns (3.2.8, 4.10.2). Agni is also the “charioteer of the Wondrous” (1.77.3) and a restrainer (yama) of chariots (8.103.10). ...Thomson is on the right track, I believe, when she argues that the Vedic chariots are mostly “imaginary, heavenly vehicles, drawn by imaginary, heavenly” horses.
  • Karen Thomson in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

• Thomson goes further and questions the notion that “the Vedic people [...] moved around on chariots with spoked wheels [...] There is no evidence of this in the poems. ‘Chariots’ in the Rigveda usually belong to the gods, and their wheels range in number from one to seven; they travel through the sky accompanied by winged horses or drawn by birds.” Taking issue, now, with Jamison’s and Brereton’s new translation of the `Rgveda, Thomson notes: “Strangely, though, ‘spoked wheels’ have been introduced twenty-two times into this translation, as a new interpretation of the word aratí. This epithet of the fire god was previously understood to mean ‘servant’ or ‘messenger’,” and she refers to Louis Renou’s endorsement of “messenger”. Concludes Thomson, “Given the current frantic search for evidence of ‘spoked wheels’ in the remains of the Indus Valley Civilization, the translation could even be considered irresponsible” (2016: 4).... “spoked wheel” makes no sense in such hymns, while “messenger” does. That is the meaning of arati adopted by a few earlier translators of the `Rgveda, such as Griffith (who uses “messenger”) or Sri Aurobindo (“Traveller”); Oldenberg rendered the word as “steward”, but notes that this translation is “only approximative and conjectural”
  • Karen Thomson in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

• In the total of nine passages in the Rigveda in which the words √vah, rátha, and ásva occur together, the ráthas are imaginary, heavenly vehicles, drawn by imaginary, heavenly ásvás. Parpola’s specific translation “war-chariot” for rátha is misleading. In none of these passages is the rátha a vehicle of war. All but three of them describe dawn and her attendant deities.
  • Thomson, K. (2009). A still undeciphered text: How the scientific approach to the Rigveda would open up Indo-European studies. Journal of Indo-European Studies, 37(1-2), 1-72.

• Thus, Talageri (2008) argues that the Rg-Veda straddles the invention or introduction of the spoked-wheeled chariot: the early parts clearly don’t know of it yet, while the later parts do. Earlier, the appearances of the spoke-wheeled chariot “in” the Rg-Veda were taken as proof that the hymn collection as a whole is younger than the chariot, but now a more sophisticated understanding of the book’s layeredness has made us realize that the oldest hymns do not mention it, indicating that the composers didn’t know of it yet.
  • K. Elst 2018. Still no trace of an Aryan invasion: A collection on Indo-European origins (2019)

• The Early Mandalas (and upam) contain no references to technological innovations like ‘ara’ (spokes) which appear only in late Mandalas and upam.
  • S. Talageri 2001. Michael Witzel – An Examination of his Review of my Book (2001)

• The following are the only verses in the RV which refer to spoked wheels: [...] They are all in the late RV.
  • S. Talageri 2008. The Rigveda and the Avesta (2008)

W

• “Something of this fear of the horse and of the thundering chariot, the "tank" of the 2nd millennium B.C. is transparent in the famous horse 'Dadhikra' of the Puru king Trasadasya ("Tremble enemy" in RV 4.38.8) ……..The first appearance of thundering chariots must have stricken the local population with terror similar to that experienced by the Aztecs and the Incas upon the arrival of the iron-clad, horse riding Spaniards.”
  • Witzel M. Early Indian history: Linguistic and textual parametres in : The Indo-Aryans of Ancient South Asia: Language, Material Culture and Ethnicity edited by George Erdosy (Papers by Michael Witzel and P. Oktor Skjærvø), Walter de Gruyter, Berlin-New York, 1995. Quoted in Talageri, S. (2000). The Rigveda: A historical analysis. New Delhi: Aditya Prakashan.

• “Not only the language, but also the culture of the newly arrived elite was appropriated, including the 'Vedic Tank' the horse drawn chariot.”
  • Michael Witzel, IndicTraditions ([2]) on 11 December 2000, message # 2735. quoted e.g. in Vigil (2006), 'Thus Spake Professor Michael Witzel A Harvard University Case Study in Prejudice?' (Chennai 2006)

From Hindu texts

• The twelve-spoke wheel of truth revolves about the heaven unwearied. Seven hundred and twenty sons in pairs stand on it, O Agni. They call the full one in the upper half of heaven the “Father with five feet and twelve forms”. These others call him “the far-seeing one mounted below on seven wheels and six spokes”. On this ever-revolving five-spoked wheel, all creatures take their stand. Its axle, though bearing a heavy load, does not get hot, nor has its nave ever broken apart for ages.
  • Rigveda the 164th of the first Mandala: in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

• By the time of the Katha Upanishad, the metaphor of the horse (and the chariot, to which we will turn shortly), though slightly altered from the `Rgvedic imagery, had become perfectly explicit: “Know the self (åtman) to be the chariot’s master, and the body, the chariot itself; know the intellect (buddhi) to be the charioteer, and the mind (manas), the reins” (1.3.3); the horses, the Upanishad continues, are the five senses (indriya-s) which must be reined in by our intellect and (higher) mind, and ultimately the self. The chariot, here, stands for the body or our external being.
  • Katha Upanishad in Danino, M. (2019). Demilitarizing the Rigveda: a scrutiny of Vedic horses, chariots and warfare., STUDIES IN HUMANITIES AND SOCIAL SCIENCES Journal of the Inter-University Centre for Humanities and Social Sciences VOL. XXVI, NUMBER 1, SUMMER 2019

• Forty bay horses of the ten cars’ master before a thousand lead the long procession. Reeling in joy Kakßivån’s sons and Pajrå’s have grounded the coursers decked with pearly trappings.
  • Rigveda RV 1.126.4 (in Lal, B. B. (2005). Can the Vedic people be identified archaeologically?–An approach. IT, 31, 173-194.)

• Joyfully the youthful daughter of the sun Ascends your rátha, heroes, here; Around are marvellous áßvás flying, May the flame-coloured birds bring you to us.
  • RV 1.118.5 quoted in Thomson, K. (2009). A still undeciphered text: How the scientific approach to the Rigveda would open up Indo-European studies. Journal of Indo-European Studies, 37(1-2), 1-72.