User talk:UDScott

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This is UDScott's talk page, where you can send messages and comments to UDScott.


Hi UDScott. Welcome to English Wikiquote.

Enjoy!-- ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 14:53, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Contents

Archives [edit]

{{Cleanup}} tag [edit]

Hey UDScott,

I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. I was working on a template for citing inline for quotes, and have left the page I was working on untouched since. I'm mostly done with the template in my userspace, and I was wondering if I can add it to mainspace properly now. I wrote in the Village pump hoping to get some feedback on using the template as an option for citations. What do you think?

Thank you :) - Starcartographer (talk) 22:06, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Bertrand Russell (wikiquote article) Split [edit]

Dear UDScott,

After the recent splitting, many important quotes by Russell are now removed from his main Wikiquote page... Is this something we should worry about?

P.S. Of course that having specific pages for "The Problems of Philosophy" and "A History of Western Philosophy" is reasonable (given that they have so many quotes, and are so long).

Maybe your decision to create a page for Russell's "Autobiography" was equably reasonable, for the same reason (size), but I am not sure about the other books...

(Please do not take this as a negative criticism of your earnest work!) I do realize that the "Bertrand Russell" Wikiquote page was (is), indeed, very long. But the same is true of other pages (e.g. "Albert Einstein").

I would like to know your thoughts on this (you can reply here, in this talk page), because I do fear that Russell's main page may be left with only quotes from his (relatively) minor works (or, more importantly, and as I mentioned above, missing important quotes). Thanks.

Kind regards, Daniel Tomé (talk) 22:48, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it is true that many important quotes are no longer on the main Bertrand Russell page, but there are links placed there to these other pages. It was done in an attempt to reduce the size of the main page, as has been done in the past with other such pages (see Charles Dickens or Donald Barthelme). Albert Einstein is also a long page, but there are fewer opportunities for splitting, as there are few single works with many quotes from him. ~ UDScott (talk) 16:11, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Dear UDScott, Thank you for the explanation.

Let me try to be clear. In my opinion, important quotes, such as those from "Marriage and Morals" (cited as being a reason for Russell's award of the Nobel Prize, and which is fundamental to understanding his views on sexuality), and "The Conquest of Happiness" (a best-seller that contains much wisdom), should be kept in the main article of Bertrand Russell, if at all possible.

Therefore, I think that the examples which you gave (Dickens and Barthelme) were not very good, since it is not such a big issue to create new pages for stories (e.g. Oliver Twist), as it is to remove from a main article important quotes that directly express the author's views on society (as was the case with Russell's article).

Finally, I share your concern about the size of the page, but I think that a better way to improve it would be to trim the article, instead of simply moving such important sections of it to other pages. I would like to know if you agree! ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 18:28, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, trimming - if warranted based on the quoteworthiness or lack thereof - is welcome. An alternative that some have used is to add key quotes to the author's main page (but also keep them with the book), with a note saying that these and other quotes for the book can be found on its page. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:34, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I am willing to (try to) trim the article, but could you advise me on how I should go about it? I certainly have no wish to upset anyone, particularly those who worked hard to add the quotes to the Bertrand Russell page. So, should I just delete the excess, or should I copy it to some specific place? And should I go ahead and make such bold edits, or would it be better to first make a proposal in the Talk page about which (parts of) quotes I plan to remove? Thank you. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 19:26, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Well, being bold is certainly encouraged, but it can't hurt to allow for the feelings of others that may have different vews on what is important to keep. I would encourage you to post a notice on the Talk page, then after a week or so, you could move selected quotes to the Talk page, again asking for comment before finally trimming them altogether. ~ UDScott (talk) 19:31, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, certainly. I will start by making a proposal in the Talk page. Thanks for your help. Best regards, Daniel Tomé (talk) 19:48, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi UDScott. As promised, I suggested a few lines that we could delete (in the Talk page of "Bertrand Russell"), and I would be happy if you could check them to see if they are sensible.

As to the alternative that you mentioned, to add key quotes to the author's main page (but also keep them with the book), with a note saying that these and other quotes for the book can be found on its page, again, I would like to know how to go about it. Should we create a section called "Sourced" (or with some other name?) for that? And could we add the quotes under the section "1970s" there? I actually think that that could be a good solution. Best regards, Daniel Tomé (talk) 23:01, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I'll continue this discussion on Talk:Bertrand Russell. ~ UDScott (talk) 14:38, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, fine. Thanks for your contributions. - Daniel Tomé (talk) 02:08, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Hello again UDScott. I went ahead and added new sections to the Bertrand Russell article, following your suggestion. I think it worked out fine, but I would like to hear your opinion. Thanks for your help in all this. Best wishes, ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 23:58, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Great work! ~ UDScott (talk) 01:27, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks very much, I'm glad you liked it. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 01:44, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Please Review Article [edit]

Hello UDScott,

Last month I had discussed proposed changes to an article of mine that had been deleted. I just reposted it "Kent Thiry" for your review. I welcome your insight and any changes you can make to help me clean it up and more successful then the first go around. Thanks! Dcomm (talk) 17:02, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I cleaned up the formatting of the page. The problems before were related to sourcing and the notability of this person. The sourcing is better now, but there may still be a question as to the notability of Thiry. For now, I've at least made the proper formatting for the page. I would suggest trying to find further quotes from this person (perhaps in the listed links). ~ UDScott (talk) 18:38, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

User:69.235.131.4 [edit]

I changed the block from indef to 30 days. It's a dynamic IP so it will not have the same user indefinitely.--Collingwood (talk) 22:36, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Network (film) [edit]

Thanks for restoring the "primal forces of nature" speech that you had removed in an earlier trimming. I think this is an "important film" that is so dense with rich material that our limits on quotations necessitate really hard choices. This speech is one on which I place a high value, though it is not a famous as the "greed is good" speech in Wall Street (film). ~ Ningauble (talk) 20:00, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I fully agree - and I think I got a bit carried away earlier. There's so much that is good in this film - and that still applies today! ~ UDScott (talk) 20:19, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
(It was required viewing when I took Herbert Schiller's introductory course in communications.) ~ Ningauble (talk) 19:37, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Zero Dark Thirty [edit]

I have read the page on length of quotes, and while a valid idea, it's clearly an unfollowed guideline on this project. How about you try to work towards a consensus on which quotes you think are superfluous, rather than insisting upon your way or no way. I think you'll find me a reasonable man if you did that, as opposed to just deleting. 99.169.250.174 21:02, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

It's not about what I think is superfluous - if you feel there are better quotes than what is on the page, feel free to put them in - but only after removing an equal number of other quotes. In fact, the page as it stands is still a bit long. The reason for the limit was that there were a large number of pages that had exploded with content and there was a danger of the site being shut down due to copyright issues. There remain many pages that are tagged that still need trimming, but there's only so much that the small user community can do to try to fix the number of pages that need it. The point is that we try to limit the pages to only the very best quotes, within the defined guidelines based on the length of the work (in this case a film, with one quote per 12 minutes of film time). For further discussion on this issue, please see here, here, here, and here. Please try to work within these guidelines. Thanks. ~ UDScott (talk) 21:13, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Vladimir Lenin [edit]

Hi, could you check this last edit? I am not sure what to make of that. Thanks. -- Mdd (talk) 00:01, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the removal of the quotes seems questionable. I restored them and semi-protected the page. Thanks. ~ UDScott (talk) 02:07, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! [edit]

Thanks for formatting my reference citation on Nguyen Khanh. Much appreciated. Illegitimate Barrister (talk) 16:34, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Sure thing - not a problem. ~ UDScott (talk) 16:35, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

All the King's Men [edit]

Thanks for the reminder about adding a link to the book's page to Robert Penn Warren's page. I probably would have forgotten that. Anyway, I think I understand everything that you're saying and I'll be adding more to the new page today and in the next few days. ~ Gæos16 (talk) 18:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Two questions [edit]

Hi UDScott,

I have two questions I hope you could help me with:

  • Why don't we use "[...]" instead of just "..." when the ellipses are used by us, the editors, and not by the original author?
  • It seems that the "Selected pages" list that appears in the Main Page hasn't changed since it was created (in March 2009‎). Could it be updated? (Personally I would like to see the Bertrand Russell page there.)

Thanks. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 00:20, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually I hadn't thought about the first point, but it does makes sense. But I don't know that it's such a big deal that it needs to be used everywhere. As to the second, I would whole-heartedly agree with having Russell in the Selected pages section - and I will do so now. ~ UDScott (talk) 02:03, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, much appreciated. ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 02:13, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

What about adding Virgil to the list? ~ DanielTom (talk) 19:58, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Sure, why not? Yes check.svgY Done ~ UDScott (talk) 20:45, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! ~ DanielTom (talk) 20:52, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

One more thing. I've just made a proposal at Talk:Main Page about the articles that currently appear on the People list (see here), but after reading your comment again ("I recommend that you post a notice on the VP to start a discussion...") I now realize that I might have misinterpreted it because of its format (I thought it was directed at Kalki, not me). Anyway, I would be glad to hear your thoughts on my suggestion. Thanks. ~ DanielTom (talk) 19:43, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I suppose adding Charles Dickens to the list would be uncontroversial. ~ DanielTom (talk) 10:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

And, if you're willing, it would be nice if you could add Flowers to the Themes list as well. Cheers, DanielTom (talk) 11:01, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Yes check.svgY Done and Yes check.svgY Done - no problem with the additions - Dickens is actually one of my favorites, so I like that addition anyway. ~ UDScott (talk) 13:13, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks again! ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Please take a look at Wikiquote:Bots#RileyBot [edit]

Please take a look at Wikiquote:Bots#RileyBot, a 'crat comment would be nice. :) -Riley Huntley (SWMT) 05:12, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

POV template [edit]

Hi UDScott, in relation to the discussion on Talk:Christ myth theory could you tell me if Wikiquote uses any Template:POV or alternative? -- Mdd (talk) 22:42, 23 February 2013 (UTC)

See Template:Npov. (Sorry to jump in.) ~ Daniel Tomé (talk) 00:20, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Daniel, this is quite welcome. -- Mdd (talk) 00:32, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Don't mention it. BTW, you can find a list of Template messages here. Regards, Daniel Tomé (talk) 00:38, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Pac-Man [edit]

I also want to commend and thank you for you for your hard work, UDScott; I note your efforts to make the page more acceptable (though I am still not sure what the best course of action is here). Yours, Daniel Tomé (talk) 22:51, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. What I expect to happen is for those that have already entered a got at the VFD page to consider my alternative as something that could be kept. If not, and the vote either ends at delete or at an impasse (meaning the page remains), I would still try to replace the current page with my version, as this fits to the tv template. For now, I plan to wait out the vote. ~ UDScott (talk) 01:09, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

St. Elsewhere [edit]

Nice job with St. Elsewhere! I was wondering if you'd be interested in creating a page for The House of God and/or The House of God (film)? -- Cirt (talk) 22:29, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! I always thought it was an underrated show. I would be happy to see pages for either incarnation of The House of God, but unfortunately I do not have a copy of the book, and it does not appear that the film quotes are available online (I haven't actually seen it, although I would be interested to). I'll keep looking and see if I can find something though. ~ UDScott (talk) 01:33, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
The book is much better, read it first please, but the film is pretty entertaining as well, heh. -- Cirt (talk) 01:58, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Talkback [edit]

Wikiquote:Bots#RileyBot. :) -Riley Huntley (SWMT) 00:31, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay - the flag has been granted. ~ UDScott (talk) 01:45, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Dejan Stojanovic [edit]

Hi UDScott, I just noticed the first chapter [Circling: 1978-1987] seem to offer exactly the same set of (32) quotes as listed in Amazon.com, see here. Can you tell me if this is acceptable? Or what could/should be done? -- Mdd (talk) 18:26, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

My opinion is that yes, the quotes are the same as in the list, but further sourcing is provided on the Dejan Stojanovic page that is not on the Amazon page (e.g., having the Sequences). To me this distinguishes the WQ page from the Amazon one and does not represent a copyright issue (for presentation reasons). I think it is OK. I think of it like we often have the same set of quotes from a film as that film's page on imdb.com, but since we add additional formatting and presentation style, it does not represent an issue between the two sites. ~ UDScott (talk) 19:36, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Ok thanks. If page numbers are provided, I will leave this for what it is. -- Mdd (talk) 22:17, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Wikidata broken in Template:otherwiki [edit]

The link to Wikidata has been broken for at least two weeks in Template:otherwiki. I made an additional note in the template's discussion page and then wrote this note on your talk page only. You're the first administrator I found in the list who was active today. --Hoziron (talk) 16:52, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes check.svgY Done ~ UDScott (talk) 17:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Rutherford B. Hayes [edit]

Hi UDScott, could you tell me if it is standard to delete test edits in stead of overwriting them, as for example here suggested. -- Mdd (talk) 23:44, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't think either way is wrong, but it's become farly customary to overwrite them using the {{talkheader}} tag. ~ UDScott (talk) 00:26, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, I don't disagree. I do think that in the long run empty talk pages draw unnecessary attention, and that's why I prefer to keep it simple. -- Mdd (talk) 12:23, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Messed up [edit]

Hi UDScott, I messed up trying to move the page Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi to Mahatma Gandhi. Could you do it yourself to preserve its history? Or maybe it's not necessary. ~ DanielTom (talk) 15:20, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Problem solved. ~ DanielTom (talk) 15:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Personal attack by DanielTom [edit]

Please see Wikiquote:Administrators'_noticeboard#Personal_attack_by_DanielTom.

Can something be done about this?

Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 16:49, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

See my response on the AN. ~ UDScott (talk) 17:44, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
  • Let's say I know someone who I think is (for example) considering suicide. What Cirt is saying is that, basically, if I tell that person to contact a mental health professional immediately, that would be a "personal attack". Well, it isn't. ~ DanielTom (talk) 18:20, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Again, see my response on the AN, where I would like to carry on this conversation (rather than here). Thanks. ~ UDScott (talk) 18:29, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, UDScott. Sorry for the flood, but, for the record, here are the supposed "personal attacks" I made to User:Cirt:

I still stand by these assertions, namely that 1) I think Cirt should be blocked [or better yet, desyopped, to prevent him from continuing to abuse his admin tools and status], and 2) I think Cirt needs mental help. I tell the truth as I see it, and if it gets me blocked, I have no problem with that. ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC) last edit: 20:36, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Forced user renames coming soon for SUL [edit]

Hi, sorry for writing in English. I'm writing to ask you, as a bureaucrat of this wiki, to translate and review the notification that will be sent to all users, also on this wiki, who will be forced to change their user name on May 27 and will probably need your help with renames. You may also want to help with the pages m:Rename practices and m:Global rename policy. Thank you, Nemo 13:07, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you! [edit]

Filmbarnstar.png The Films Barnstar
For your outstanding contributions to film related articles, I hereby award you the Films Barnstar. ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:18, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
Why thank you...while I enjoy all parts of WQ, for sure, I am always drawn first to the film and TV show pages (both the good and the bad), as this is where I first became enamored of quotes. Thanks for the appreciation. ~ UDScott (talk) 12:29, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
You are very welcome. I think that the number of films I've ever seen in my life is much smaller than the total number of film pages you've created on Wikiquote! They are all excellent, too. ;-) DanielTom (talk) 13:03, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

botflag for carsracBot [edit]

Could you take a look a my botflag request here. Carsrac (talk) 10:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

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