Talk:Conspiracy

Ikleheimer

The earliest book I know where the letters appear is J. F. Rutherford's Vindication, Book II, Chapter 6 (1932). Although the letters are supposed to be from 1863, item 17 on the circular cites a case "Mr. Branch against the United States, reported in the 12th. volume of the U.S. Court of Claims Reports, at page 287", which wasn't decided until December 1876 (12 Fed. Cl. 281), thus the circular could not have been written before December 1876. The Supreme Court took up the case in 1879 and affirmed the decision. You can see in Branch v. United States 100 US 673 that the case didn't start until the 1870s. —KHirsch 15:35, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

The date on the letters matches the period that the Sherman Nation Bank Act of 1863 was submitted and passed but there is no date on the circular in the link provided. Is there any information on WHEN the combination of the letters and circular were first distributed?71.174.141.4 14:02, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Item 15 in the circular states in part "As the banks have a national organization" Indicate that the national banks already exist and have had time to set up an organization when the undated CIRCULAR was written. It could not therefore not have been written in 1863. Again the question becomes "WHEN" was the letter and circular combination first distributed? If the combination was circulated in the 1860's and possibly the 70's there is a problem. There is however no problem with the combination appearing around 1900.71.174.141.4 14:02, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Historical Note

In Vindication, it says "More than thirty years ago a St. Louis magazine published these letters, and their authenticity has never been disproved." Of course, the gross anachronism mentioned above does disprove their authenticity, but I have wanted to find this earlier source.

Here is an earlier source, from page 2 of the Louisiana Populist, September 7, 1894: https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn88071004/1894-09-07/ed-1/seq-2/

I have come across a much more specific reference to this. In The Daily Mining Record, (Denver, CO) Tuesday, June 19, 1894; Issue 142; col B (on InfoTrac's 19th Century U.S. Newspapers), there is an item entitled "The Voice of God" reprinted from National View. It reviews the new publication Vox Populi:

Vox Populi is the name of it and it is a new illustrated paper that hails from St. Louis. One look at the front cover is warranted to kill a gold-bug.

...

The reading matter of the Vox Populi as good as the illustrations. You ought to see the letter of Rothschild Brothers, dated Jun 25, 1863, to Ikleheimer, Morton, and Vandergould, and the reply of July 5. John Sherman will hate to see those letters in print, though nothing but a dollar ever struck through the hide of rhinoceros John. "Uncle Sam," wearing a grown of thorns made of all the monopolies that go to crucify him, is a frightfully significant "cut." We are going to notice Vox Populi more than once, if it keeps on in the style of this number.—National View.

Note: This "Crown of Thorns" illustration, published two years before Bryan's "Cross of Gold" speech, is reproduced on page 332 of Populist Revolt: A History of the Farmers' Alliance and the People's Party by John D. Hicks.

—KHirsch 15:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Josiah Stamp

I haven't found anywhere that Stamp is called the "second richest man" or even being called particularly wealthy except in connection with the quote. He wasn't even in the top five wealthiest Brits to die in 1941. According to the probate records, as recorded in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Stamp was worth £163,548 at his death. There were at least five people ahead of him:

£880,331 Grenfell, Edward Charles
£776,220 Wakefield, Charles Cheers
£509,712 Austin, Herbert
£408,999 Smith, Lancelot Grey Hugh
£234,748 Cadman, John

And, of course, this doesn't include the much larger number of people who lived through the year.

Claiborne Pell

Source that he was advocate for the treaty:

A U.S.-Soviet Ban on Weather Use for War is Near
New York Times, Jun 24, 1975, pg. 69

"The main American advocate of an agreement banning environmental warfare has been Senator Claiborne Pell, Democrat of Rhode Island. He publicized a secret rain-making program in Indochina during the Vietnam war to increase normal monsoon rainfall and make North Vietnamese movements more difficult.

"Mr. Pell succeeded in July, 1973, in inducing the Senate to vote 82 to 10 in favor of a resolution urging the Administration to seek a treaty banning environmental warfare."

I had found an editorial where he said that most of the things banned were not yet possible, but I cannot find it now. The quote "today's science fiction is tomorrow's strategic reality" is said (on the Internet) to be from an editorial in the Providence Journal-Bulletin in 1975, but I haven't been able to verify it.

Removed from page

These two are not in McFadden's June 10, 1932 speech. They may well be from McFadden, but I haven't found where or when. Also, there's already plenty from McFadden on the page.

• It [the depression] was not accidental. It was a carefully contrived occurrence.... The international bankers sought to bring about a condition of despair here so that they might emerge as the rulers of us all.
  • Congressman Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee

• The Federal Reserve (Bank) is one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this Nation is run by the international bankers.
  • Congressman Louis T. McFadden

This one doesn't seem notable enough to include:

• There today exists uncontrolled in the hands of a set of men a power to make dollars from nothing.
  • Thomas W. Lawson Frenzied Finance, 1905

I don't see the relevance to "Conspiracy" of the following quotes:

• This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon.
  • Robert H. Hemphill (Credit Manager of Federal Reserve Bank, Atlanta, Ga.)

• "100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt ... all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government."
  • Grace Commission Report, submitted to President Ronald Reagan on January 15, 1984

Mihhail Veingold

I would like to know more about a certain Mihhail Veingold who is quoted on the "Conspiracy Quotes"-Page. A search in Google for this name didn't provide much of value. Who posted this quote on the page?

"The world has been hijacked by a power-hungry satanic sumerian religious order. They control the entire international finances scene and thus monolithically own the media and the politicians around the globe. They seize real property by shrinking and expanding the money supply and exploiting the discounted foreclosure auctions, they purchase on the peak of deflation everything that produces profit and receive interest from all the money, as money is debt. Those people are usurpers that spread corruption, deception, disgrace, manipulation and false values and systematically humiliate, rape, torture and murder children.

• Mihhail Veingold, in a speech before the Tallinn University alumni (2012)"

Whoever posted this: please deliver more specific information about the alleged author, because I'd like to contact him (if still alive).

Please send your information to benno.constantine@googlemail.com

Disputed and Misattributed

These were moved here by another editor to this talk page. I was going to move them back, but did not. Though I believe most of them are probably appropriate in the article to help prevent recurrent posting of some of them as if were genuine or factual, I also acknowledge that there are presently not enough editors here to prevent deterioration of articles by those devoted to inserting poorly formatted and poorly sourced material, as well as removing such statements as they simply do not agree with, or such presentation of facts they do not wish to have publicized, and I see some incidence of this here, in these sections, and their deterioration, in various ways. ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 15:51, 21 December 2018 (UTC) + tweak

Disputed

• Now that we can control the weather, create earthquakes and tidal waves and, use it as a weapon of war, we do not need a treaty.
  • Attributed to Senator Claiborne Pell, Senate Intelligence Committe member, commenting on a USA/USSR treaty signed in 1978. This is almost certainly a misquotation as Pell was the most prominent advocate for the treaty. After reports in 1971 that the U. S. military seeded clouds to try to make the Ho Chi Minh trail impassable, Pell pushed for a treaty banning weather modification and other "Environmental Warfare". Pell said that most such weapons were currently impossible, but "today's science fiction is tomorrow's strategic reality".

Misattributed

• If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency (instead of Congress), first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied.
  • Attributed to Thomas Jefferson, purportedly in a 1802 letter to then Secretary of the Treasury, Albert Gallatin. The book Respectfully Quoted says this is "obviously spurious", noting that the OED's earliest citation for the word "deflation" is from 1920. The earliest known appearance of this quote is from 1935 (Testimony of Charles C. Mayer, Hearings Before the Committee on Banking and Currency, House of Representatives, Seventy-fourth Congress, First Session, on H.R. 5357, p. 799).

• The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or so dependent on its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of the people mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system will bear its burdens without complaint and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests.
  • Attributed to Senator John Sherman in a letter supposedly sent from the Rothschild Bros. of London to New York bankers Ikleheimer, Morton, and Vandergould, on 25 June 1863. The letters are forgeries that could not have been written before 1876. Further, no evidence of a firm with the name "Ikleheimer, Morton, and Vandergould" has been found.

• Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!
• Variant: Give me control of a Nation’s money supply, and I care not who makes its laws.
• Variant: Let me issue and control a nation's money and I care not who writes the laws.
  • Attributed to Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744 - 1812) mostly with the date 1790, the year before the establishment of the First Bank of the United States.
    No primary source for this is known and the earliest attribution to him known is:
    “In the present critical stage of American development I would call your attention to the following maxim of the " money lenders " of the Old World : "Let us control the money of a country, and we care not who makes its laws." Those who favor the continuance of banks of issue in this country are to be classified in history with John Sherman and Nelson W. Aldrich and the money power.”
    by T.C. Daniel, 1857 - 1923 ; letter to President W. Wilson, May 8, 1913; reported in his statement for the joint hearings before the subcommittees of the Committees on Banking and Currency of the Senate and of the House of Representatives, charged with the investigation of rural credits, Sixty-third Congress, second session, part 1, pp. 764, February 16, 1914;
    Daniel was the author of Real Money versus Bank Credit as a Substitute for Money, 1911, and of The High Cost of Living: Cause — Remedy, 1912 ; further in the statement pp 771 he quoted:
    "Let us control the money of a country and we care not who makes its laws." This is the maxim of the house of Rothschilds, and is the foundation principle of European banks.
    
    This quote was used in The Magazine of Wall Street and Business Analyst (November 10, 1934 p.67) and in Money Creators (1935) by Gertrude M. Coogan.
    
    It might perharps be a play on an English proverb, Let me make the songs of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws.

• Variant: I care not what puppet is placed upon the throne of England to rule the Empire on which the sun never sets. The man who controls Britain's money supply controls the British Empire, and I control the British money supply.
  • Attributed to Nathan Mayer Rothschild (1777-1836) mostly with the year 1815.

• Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take this power away from them, and all the great fortunes disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create money and control credit.
  • Attributed to Josiah Stamp, "President of the Bank of England and the second richest man in the British Empire". However, Stamp was never President of the Bank of England, though he was on the board of directors, nor does he appear to have ever been anywhere near the second richest man in the British Empire. He died in 1941, but the earliest source is The Legalized Crime of Banking (1958) by Silas W. Adams, which gives no earlier citation, only saying "as said in an informal talk to 150 University of Texas history, economics and social science professors, in the 20's". The quote also seems to imply that Stamp made his fortune in banking, which is not true. It is inconsistent with everything Stamp wrote and said about banking on the record.

• It is perhaps well enough that the people of the Nation do not know or understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
• Variant: If the American people knew the corruption in our money system there would be revolution before morning.
  • Attributed to Henry Ford by Charles Binderup (March 19, 1937), Congressional Record—House vol. 81, p. 2528. The quote is preceded by "It was Henry Ford who said, in substance, this", which indicates that this is likely just a paraphrase, not an exact quote.

• Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce... and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.
  • The first part is attributed to James A. Garfield in The American Plutocracy (1895) by Milford Wriarson Howard, Ch. 16 : How Plutocracy Enslaves, p. 156. It is a paraphrase of Garfield's "absolute dictator" quote. The second part is a late 20th-century misattribution.

• The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizen of his plight.
  • Attributed to John F. Kennedy, purportedly in a speech at Columbia University, 10 days before his assassination. However, Kennedy made no speech at Columbia in 1963 and there are no actual records of him ever saying anything like this anywhere.