Talk:Galen

The narcissus is the food of the soul

Googling shows that this has also been attributed to Mohammed for at least a hundred years. The footnote I reference cites Nowwájee, En-, Shems-ed-deen Mohammad (died 1454) and it strikes me as possible that the personal forename of the historian referenced, Mohammad, has been mistakenly seen at some date after Arabian Society In The Middle Ages was first published (1883) as the author of the quote rather than the reference. Once a mistake of that sort appears in print it gets repeated along with the quote by people thinking it was a recognized attribution. Cb6 (talk) 16:59, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

19th & 20th century sources

I am puzzled by this category of 19th and 20th century sources. It is as if the publication of a translation or, for that matter, a text of Galen is not a direct citation of Galen, but is a modern source. I am not acquainted with this being done with other ancient writers. I am particularly puzzled that a publication of a 20th century translation is improved by the addition of a second-hand citation. Isn't the book itself enough? TomS TDotO (talk) 10:27, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi TomS TDotO, you seem to address two things: First the addition of the subdivision (here): This is added in the first place because I believe smaller chapters improve online reading and navigating. Now you are right this type of division is new, but it makes some sense: It is just a chronological division by secondary sources. This is made because info about the primary sources are missing. Now I am not sure what your problem is. Do you prefer another rearrangement? If you are more familiar with the original sources, we could add them, and make another rearrangement. Or if the rearrangement itself is unclear, then maybe the text could be altered/improved or an extra line could be added?

Secondly the expanding of a quote (was it here? I am not sure what the problem is. Another source is used (see here), to give the original quote some more context. If two translations are mixed up here, please explain? -- Mdd (talk) 11:04, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

I am not thrilled with this organization of the article. I do approve of using a separate section for latter day attributions that lack convincing provenance, to segregate them from faithful translations and editions of the author's works. The way the article is organized now has the opposite effect.

Chronology of the author's work is a good way to organize an article when it is known, but for ancient writers the chronology is often unclear. Chronology of translations does not strike me as useful at all. ~ Ningauble (talk) 13:09, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok thanks, rearrangements are made following your directions, see here. Please make further improvements where you like.

Just for the record about the usefulness of a chronology of translations: It is an objective one; and when translations are made over centuries, as with this work, a chronology of translations reveals/explain something of the languages used (which is traced back to a particular time period); and reveals how long (approximately) the particular quote in English exist.. etc. -- Mdd (talk) 13:40, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

You have expressed my concern exactly.

As far as citing the secondary source, perhaps this is what is needed for a complete citation: De usu partium in Karl Gottlob Kühn Claudii Galeni opera omnia, Leipzig: Car. Cnoblochii, 1821-1833, reprinted Hildesheim: G. Olms, 1964-1965; vol. 3 p. 837

apud Christopher Jon Elliott, Galen, Rome and the Second Sophistic, Ph. D. dissertation, The Australian National University, 2005

—This unsigned comment is by TomS TDotO (talk • contribs) . 13:17, June 17, 2014‎

Thanks, I have updated the source info, see here, taking into account that the quotes (with known origin) are all listed by the English booktitle (which therefor should be mentioned). -- Mdd (talk) 13:50, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Origin of the quote "The best physician is also a philosopher."

In Johann Joachim Eschenburg's Manual of Classical Literature, (1837) p. 266-267 (see here)

§273 Claudius Galenus was born at Pergamus in Asia, about A D. 130. He traveled much, and repeatedly took his residence at Rome. He wrote not merely on medical topics, but also on subjects of philosophy, mathematics, and grammar. Many of the writings ascribed to him are undoubtedly spurious, especially such as are extant only in Latin.

1. The name of Galen is justly associated with that of Hippocrates, as to these two, above all the ancients, the healing art is indebted. The time of his death is unknown. He was the confidential physician of the emperor Marcus Aurelius. Some of his works composed at Rome are said to have perished by the burning of his house; yet there are extant 82 treatises of established genuineness, besides 18 commentaries on Hippocrates and a number of fragments. In addition to these, there are 18 published under his name of doubtful genuineness, and a still larger number now acknowledged to be spurious, and many 'still in manuscript in the Libraries. Amongthe most interesting and important of his works are the following : ..., Of anatomical manipulations, in 9 books (originally 15); ... On the use of the different parts of the human body, in 57 books, regarded as his chef-d'oeuvre, and containing a demonstration of divine wisdom and design; ..., The healing Art, cited also in the middle ages under the title of Tegnum, Microtegnum or Michrotechnum, a work which was adopted in all the schools, and familiarity with it made a prerequisite for admission to practice; and ... Therapeutics, in 14 books, called in the middle ages Megalotechnum. We may mention another work, which is rather curious, ..., a systematic enumeration of his own writings, with incidents of his life, composed when advanced in age. — Scholl, V. 345 ss.

a. There have been many editions of Galen's works in Latin; Schall speaks of 92. — Them have been two of two Greek text alone: Andre d'Asola (in ted. Aid.) Ven. 1525. 5 vols. fol. — A. Cratander (printer, cd. Gemusaus). Bas. 1538. 5 vols. fol. — There are two also of the Greek with a Latin version; R. Chartier. Par. 1679. 13 vols. fol. (cf §270.2) — Best, K.G. Kuhn, in the first 20 vols. of the collection cited $ 269. 1. We notice the following works, separately published: That the best physician is also a philosopher, by Coray. Par. 1816. with a treatise of Hippocrates (« 270.3). — Exhortation to study of the sciences, Willet, Leyd. 1812. 8. — A German translation of the works of Galen, commenced by Noldecke. Oldenb. 1805. (1st vol.) 8.

If I read correctly the quote "That the best physician is also a philosopher" was the title of a book by Coray, (probably) published in 1816. So far it is unclear whether or not there is an original quote by Galen. -- Mdd (talk) 11:32, 17 June 2014 (UTC)