Talk:Howard Safir

Neutrality

This page reads like an attack page. --Ubiquity 15:13, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

There are verifiable references included on the page for these quotes. If you have found some positive quotes about this individual, you are free to add them yourself! 24.168.46.226 21:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I certainly am. I am not, however, obligated to do so. Until someone does, the page looks like an attack page, and as such will probably be deleted. Please see Wikiquote:Neutral point of view, Wikiquote:Speedy deletions#Articles and w:Wikipedia:Attack page. --Ubiquity 05:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

The quotes about the subject, while clearly negative, have been properly sourced with verifiable references from an established publication, The New York Observer. Just because the quotes about the subject are unfavorable doesn't mean that it is an "attack page"! Any editor is free to add either positive quotes about the subject, or quotes by the subject himself. 24.168.46.226 09:33, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Here is the policy: An "article, page, category, redirect or image created for the sole purpose of disparaging its subject is an attack page. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, these pages are subject to being deleted by any administrator at any time." Because Safir is well-known and important, I did not delete speedily, but instead asked for a vote, to get the opinion of others in the WQ community. I see you have already presented your opinion there. Feel free to participate, but note that votes from anonymous IP addresses are not counted. You may want a registered id. --Ubiquity 14:13, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your response and your cleanup of the page. Why are votes from anonymous IP addresses not counted? I was told by an Wikipedia administrator that votes from anonymous IP addresses are counted in all discussions, so unless the policies here are different than those on Wikipedia, I don't see why my vote shouldn't count! Can you please supply a link to the WQ policy page that states that votes from anonymous IP addresses are not counted? By the way, I never set up a registered ID on Wikiquote by choice. 24.168.46.226 17:03, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I read the article from which you took all your quotes. If this was not intended to be an attack page, why did you deliberately truncate the quote about what a good job he did for the Witness Protection Program to "Howard has a strong ego."? (I added the remainder of the quote). --Ubiquity 16:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Since you feel so strongly about it, I will go ahead and search the internet for some quotes by Mr. Safir, as well as some positive quotes about him... If I do this, will you withdraw your deletion request? 24.168.46.226 17:03, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I have spent the last hour or so adding more quotes to the article. There are now five quotes by Mr. Safir and five quotes about him. Of the ten quotes now on the page, only three of them can be considered negative or derogatory. Don't you think that the time has come to withdraw your request to delete the page, Ubiquity? 24.168.46.226 18:15, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Unfortunately i cannot simply remove the tag. However, I will withdraw my nomination and recommend that the article be allowed to stand. Thanks for working with me on this. --23:25, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Tags

24.168.46.226, in response to your indignation that I flagged problems with your post rather than fixing them, I will say under normal circumstances I would have fixed them, but I was short of time today, and at this point it no longer seems worth doing since the article is likely to be deleted. Addressing those points would improve the article, but whether you choose to do that is up to you. Also, the {{no-intro}} tag is not merely about having a {{wikipedia}} tag. Wikiquote articles should begin with a short introduction explaining why the subject is notable. --Ubiquity 05:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I have fixed some of the problems with the page that you mention above. I now believe that the article should no longer be considered for deletion. Please review the recent changes which I made and tell me if they are satisfactory. If not, please tell me what else needs to be done to bring the page up to Wikiquote standards. Thank you! 24.168.46.226 10:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts. I made some changes to bring the article more into Wikiquote style (which is somewhat different from Wikipedia), and removed the cleanup tag. I still think the page will be regarded as an attack page. The best way to fix that would be to add some quotes by Safir, and to remove a couple of the "about" quotes. There are very few pages on WQ that only consist of "about" quotes. If there were some that were entirely negative, they would also be up for deletion. --Ubiquity 13:49, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

VfD keep

This article was preserved after a vote for its deletion. See its archived VfD entry for details.

--Poetlister 17:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC)