Talk:Jesus in the Talmud

Quotes

Inbox

Quotes which may be considered for inclusion.

Jesus#The Talmud

Moved here from Jesus#The Talmud. BurningLibrary (talk) 17:47, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Outbox

Quotes which may belong somewhere else.

Tractable quotes

• שְׁפִילִית לְסֵיפֵיהּ דַּעֲווֹן גִּלְיוֹן, וּכְתִיב בֵּיהּ: אֲנָא לָא לְמִיפְחַת מִן אוֹרָיְיתָא דְּמֹשֶׁה אֲתֵיתִי [וְלָא] לְאוֹסֹפֵי עַל אוֹרָיְיתָא דְמֹשֶׁה אֲתֵיתִי
  • Shabbat 116b:2
  • Translation:
    • I proceeded to the end of the avon gilayon, and it is written: I, avon gilayon, did not come to subtract from the Torah of Moses, and I did not come to add to the Torah of Moses.
      • The William Davidson Talmud

Of all the quotes on this page, Shabbat 116b:2 appears to be the most tractable. Although the term avon gilayon is derogatory, the passage echoes, with reasonable fidelity, the words of Matthew 5:17 in the New Testament. This passage also has the interesting property of being one of the few or possibly only quotations from a non-Jewish book in the entire Babylonian Talmud. BurningLibrary (talk) 19:28, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Containment

Given the nature of the topic, it is well to give some thought to its "logistics"—how it is to be organized, and under what circumstances one may link to it. First and foremost, quotes about the topic should only be stored on pages dedicated to it, and not on other pages on the wiki. However, in cases where one wishes to provide a single, relevant quote for the sake of linking pages together, then one should pick a tractable quote for that purpose. (This strategy is employed on the Talmud page.)

Secondly, one should take care to link to this page only in cases where it is actually topically relevant. For example, Toledot Yeshu links to Jesus in the Talmud, and Jesus in the Talmud also links to Toledot Yeshu, as these topics are related. As another example, the following quote (found on the Historical Jesus page) might also provide a relevant link to Jesus in the Talmud:

• The Jesus ben-Pandera of the Talmud may have led a movement round which the survivals of an ancient solar or other cult gradually clustered. … The founder of the movement may have met his death by preaching a subversive political doctrine, and the facts may have been suppressed by later writers.
  • Archibald Robertson: Jesus: Myth or History?, ch. 7, "Jesus: Myth and History", p. 100. Watts & Co. (1946).

Since the words "Jesus ben-Pandera of the Talmud" here refer specifically to the Ben Pandera narrative in the Talmud, it would be appropriate to link to Jesus in the Talmud.

By contrast, here is a case where it would not be appropriate to link to the Jesus in the Talmud page:

• As a child, I received instruction both in the Bible and in the Talmud. I am a Jew, but I am enthralled by the luminous figure of the Nazarene.
  • Albert Einstein, George Sylvester Viereck interview. The Saturday Evening Post (1929).

Even though this quote references both Jesus and the Talmud, the word "Talmud" refers here to Talmudic teachings in general, not to Talmudic passages about Jesus. Therefore, if the word "Talmud" in this quote is linkified, it should link to Talmud, not to Jesus in the Talmud.

In general, one may note that if a quote were to be tagged as #Jesus and #Talmud, it would not necessarily follow that it should also be tagged as #Jesus in the Talmud. A closer inspection of the quote is necessary.

In most cases where one might think about linking to Jesus in the Talmud, one should consider linking to Jewish views on Jesus instead. That page has a broader scope and includes a few respectful and conciliatory perspectives. There are cases where linking to Jesus in the Talmud is appropriate, a few examples of which have been given here, but in most cases, a link to Jewish views on Jesus is the better choice. BurningLibrary (talk) 19:31, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Resources

Articles

• "The Jesus Narrative in the Talmud", Gil Student