Talk:John Bunyan

John Bunyan was an important contributor to English literature. I think more quotes might be in order. Welcome one and all!--Drboisclair 23:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced

• Hearing is but the sowing of the seed: Talking is not sufficient to prove that the fruit is indeed in the Heart and life; and let us assure ourselves, that at the day of Doom, men shall be judged according to their Fruit; It will not be said then, Did you believe? But were you Doers or Talkers only? And accordingly shall you be judged.

Pilgrim’s Progress - Apollyon

The Apollyon episode from Pilgrim's Progress is surely the most famous incident from the most famous book by Bunyan. I think a large publisher used to claim that Pilgrims Progress had sold more copies than any other book written originally in English.

The passage was uploaded in 2009. No concern has ever been raised in this Discussion page. Bunyan’s margin notes were removed in January 2014 by Kalki, and the main text was removed February 2014 by Omnipaedista.

Their comments at the History page are misleading. Nonetheless:-
1. The margin notes have now been replaced by those in the famous edition of George Offor (1855). The only difference is that four references to the Holy Bible are added. Offor (1847) states that all four were in Bunyan’s second edition. Replacement by the 1855 edition also modernises the spellings.
2. The formatting has now been replaced by a method based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_markup#Align_text_to_right

The episode is admittedly nearly four pages, but the genius of Pilgrim's Progress is concerned with sections rather than one-liners. A further reason for the upload to Wikiquote is that Bunyan’s marginal notes are absent from the Wikisource Pilgrim’s Progress, which is html rather than facsimile.

For more information, please see:-
Bunyan J (2003) "The Pilgrim’s Progress", Oxford University Press. Introduction, page xxiv, mentions the margin notes, for example Bible references.
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/pilgrims/canalysis.html , which has sections for only two characters from the First Part, namely Christian and Apollyon.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/sep/23/100-best-novels-pilgrims-progress
https://archive.org/details/pilgrimsprogress02buny , the Offor edition of 1847.
https://archive.org/details/worksofjohnbunya03buny , the Offor edition of 1855.

Patrick Hamilton (talk) 19:37, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

I restored this to an earlier version, where I had retained the addition of the section as a notable one, but had removed the descriptive editorial flourishes of 19th century editions, and added images. I can agree the passage as a whole is quotable, but can also see, that even if is not further trimmed, it probably should be further formatted, but I don’t believe I personally trimmed anything but the editorial descriptions in the margins (which I am pretty sure do not originate with Bunyan himself). ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡

I also just replaced a couple links to 19th century editions which had been removed in my previous edit. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 16:00, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

A few immediate thoughts:-
1) The margin notes are Bunyan's. Regarding Apollyon, the 2003 Oxford edition has 11 plus 4 Scripture references. Offor (1847) explains that the remaining margin note was in all editions starting with the ninth (1684), and that was published well before Bunyan's death in 1688.
2) What is the edition now used for the Apollyon quote? Surely Wikiquotes should be referenced/sourced. It is certainly not the American edition I had earlier used, because that includes the margin notes.
3) The William Blake illustration of Apollyon is certainly not Bunyan's. Probably the same goes for other illustrations added to the section. I do not understand why Kalki (15:47 03 Feb) has added it or them to the Bunyan page.
4) I still do not understand why Kalki is determined to remove Bunyan's margin notes.

Patrick Hamilton (talk) 21:17, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

I just got back to my computer and was away for a while, and will probably be leaving again soon, but while I am here I will note that for the most part I restored quotes I did not originally provide, and at this point am not sure what edition was used, have provided chapter citations according to some of the editions (despite these not being necessarily in the original editions, they probably are a convenience for many, and helped me organize the structure sequentially, rather in various unorganized sections with subjective headings related to various passages quoted). If the margin notes are actually Bunyan's they could be accommodated, but again this is a site primarily for quotes, not for recreating facsimile pages of texts which are not available elsewhere on Wikimedia projects. One could conceivably make Wikisource pages for a specific edition of the work, if you are that interested in providing such extensive presentations, but I am aware this would be far more time consuming and might not be sufficiently desired by others there. As it is, the presentation of the passage you provide is far more extensive than that of most quotes generally used here, and though I have accepted that, the addition of margin notes is not really normally accommodated save in interlinear comments below what are usually just short quotes, not long passages.The images are provided to bring further attention to various notable quotes within the passages quoted, and in some cases were art works specifically created by famous artists to go with passages of Bunyan's work, and even when they are not, to varying degrees correspond to the quotes being captioned. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 23:00, 3 February 2015 (UTC) +tweaks

Man with the muckrake

   John Bunyan needs a mention of what's at wikipedia:History_of_American_newspapers#History of term muckraker
--Jerzy•t 05:35, 13 August 2015 (UTC)