Talk:Sophie Scholl

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Sophie Scholl page.


Wikiquote no longer allows unsourced quotations, and they are in process of being removed from our pages (see Wikiquote:Limits on quotations); but if you can provide a reliable, precise and verifiable source for any quote on this list please move it to Sophie Scholl. --Antiquary 18:25, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

  • I want to share in the suffering of these days …That is putting it too strongly, perhaps; I mean I want to be affected more directly … Sympathy is often difficult and soon becomes hollow if one feels no pain oneself.
    • PERHAPS as quoted in Conscience in Revolt : Sixty-Four Stories of Resistance in Germany (1994) by Annedore Leber [ — online searching indicates that this statement seems to be within this book, but there is not enough info accessible online to even clearly construe that it is attributed to Scholl within that work. ] ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 02:22, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
  • People believe that we live in the end times, and many terrible signs make such a belief all too credible. But isn't it irrelevant? Don't we all realize that, no matter when we live, God can call us at a moment's notice? How do I know if I'll even be alive tomorrow morning? A bomb could fall tonight and kill us all; and still my guilt would be no smaller than if I were to go down with the earth and all the stars.
    • Cited at a few sites online as originating in a letter of 1943; no published source yet found. ~ Kalki (talk · contributions) 02:22, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Primary source?[edit]

This cannot be found in the German original in ANY original source but rather seems to stem from a movie script written for her character. As I cannot look into the book that is cited as a source here: What is the orginial source?

"The real damage is done by those millions who want to "survive." The honest men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don't want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won't take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those who don't like to make waves — or enemies. Those for whom freedom, honor, truth, and principles are only literature. Those who live small, mate small, die small. It's the reductionist approach to life: if you keep it small, you'll keep it under control. If you don't make any noise, the bogeyman won't find you. But it's all an illusion, because they die too, those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what? Life is always on the edge of death; narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues, and a little candle burns itself out just like a flaming torch does. I choose my own way to burn." As quoted in O2 : Breathing New Life Into Faith (2008) by Richard Dahlstrom, Ch. 4 : Artisans of Hope: Stepping into God's Kingdom Story, p. 63


a little research shows that this book "quotes" this without giving any source at all, (see p.63 here: Google books) proving my point that this quote is in fact NOT from Sophie Scholl but a common, internet-age misattribution. It was most likely written to be said by her character in a movie. Will remove it until someone can provide a REAL, ORIGINAL source.

--Fabian Flöck (talk) 13:22, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I have moved the quote to the "Disputed section" with the statement that it has not been cited to an original document. ~ Kalki·· 13:55, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, moved the second quote from the book there as well, as it shows the same problem of being unsourced, as far as I can see. --Fabian Flöck (talk) 12:23, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Missing (primary) sources in secondary citations[edit]

As discussed before here for the Richard Dahlstrohm book, I just moved the Christian Jazz Artists Newsletter quote to "disputed" as well.

It is not good citing practice to reference a document/publication that does not give the primary (or worse: any) source of a quote. There can be exceptions if the author of the publication is of very high standing as an expert on the topic, such as a writing of a historian specialized in the field or a family member of the quoted. But generally citing sources that quote someone without giving a source are to be taken with highest caution (See the R. Dahlstrohm example where there are NO quotes like this to be found in German nowhere on the web except one untrustable website who seems to have taken it from some kind of fictional writing and in English everything leads back to a 1991 theater play by Lillian Garrett-Groag).

This goes especially for random books and websites of whose reputation or expertise in the field nothing is known. Fabian Flöck (talk)

Sophie or Sophia ?[edit]

Is there a justification to use "Sophie" instead of "Sophia", besides that the first has become commonly used? Which name was mentioned on the birth certificate? Engraved in her tombstone? What is (was) common in Germany? If I look at the references it appears that her sister, Inge, might have added to the confusion by using both "Sophia" (Reference 1) and "Sophie" (Reference 4). At least there isn't anyone that uses "Sofie" or "Sofia"!

IMO having the name of a (historical important) person right is important. A small clarification on the name matter could suffice to use both ways to write the name in one single article.