Talk:Bertrand Russell

Discussion

I deleted that quote from user 62.251.12.169:

• "'Philosophy' is a word which has been used in many ways, some wider, some narrower. I propose to use it in a very wide sense, which I will now try to explain."
  • Source: A History of Western Philosophy

These two sentences are quite possibly the most meaningless words Russel ever put together. If you disagree, revert and add this other famous quotes from him:

• "Hello."
• "Ouch."
• "Six o'clock."

- posted by an anonymous user (User:217.81.69.52)

I am in no hurry to put the phrase back, because it should perhaps be given fuller context, but I certainly cannot agree with either your assessment, or your apparent attitude. If it seems meaningless to you, you are certainly free to indicate why, but it is a truthful comment, and well bespeaks a fact that is true of many words, especially many casually used words like philosophy, and religion, and even science. Love of Wisdom, Faith in a Greater Presence, and Knowledge of Truth, are indicated by the terms, but they have all been applied and misapplied in many ways: to casual ideas of the most shallow who have no great love or knowledge of Wisdom; to faiths proclaimed to be about Reality, that are far more faiths in one's own bigotries, and to searches that are claimed to be for knowledge of what is true, but are often searches for confirmations of one's own presumptions. I will probably replace the statement, but feel I should examine the full context of this apparently introductory comment, and among the works by Russell in my collection I am not sure I presently have a copy of this, and am not sure where it is, if I do. ~ Moby 19:48, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think anonymous (and unsigned) User:217.81.69.52 has a point, though I also find his/her vehemence unseemly. Wikiquote is filled with far too many quotes that only seem to have meaning to the people adding them, or those who are already aware of the context. Moby may be quite right, that Russell's words presage an important linguistic insight, but I found Moby's explanation more interesting and useful than the quote. Surely Russell has made this point more eloquently and succinctly elsewhere, perhaps in said full context? — Jeff Q 21:19, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Order of quotations

The quote about race appearing first in this collection can't be coincidence; it seems likely that someone wanted to give greatest prominence to the quote that reflected worst on Russell. Is there any policy on what order quotations should appear in, or are we free to start a revert war on the subject with no reference by which to choose what is most appropriate? - (ciphergoth) 82.70.194.38 08:53, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

After some searching, I'm starting to doubt the authenticity of this quote, but I don't have a copy of Marriage and Morals to hand to check. 82.70.194.38 09:06, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

I don't know anything about this specific quote, but I listened to a talk by Noam Chomsky here, and in the Q&A section (at about 41 minutes) someone asked him about Russell, and Chomsky mentioned that Russell made some horrible/racist/genocidal remarks, though still most of what he did was admirable... So it's quite possible that this quote is accurate. Therefore I suggest not to remove it without checking the source first. iddo999 11:11, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

As far as checking the quote, 82.70.194.38, I highly recommend your local library. I use mine to fact-check quotes frequently. Most libraries should have a copy of Marriage and Morals. Always remember that these things get fixed by the people who care most about each article. — Jeff Q (talk) 19:02, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Some missing quotes

I thought a few of the interestings quotes are missing. I'm posting them here first:

"Aristotle maintained that women have fewer teeth than men; although he was twice married, it never occurred to him to verify this statement by examining his wives' mouths." - Impact of Science on Society

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." (couldn't find any sources for this one)

This is a common but unsourced version; the very similar thing that Russell did write is contained in the page: “The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” (But it is probably useful to retain this widely-quoted version here, for the benefit of those seeking an attribution of it to Russell.) Gthb 13:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

"Not to be absolutely certain is, I think, one of the essential things in rationality." - Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic?

"Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom." - Unpopular Essays, Outline of Intellectual Rubbish

When one admits that nothing is certain one must, I think, also admit that some things are much more nearly certain than others. It is much more nearly certain that we are assembled here tonight than it is that this or that political party is in the right. Certainly there are degrees of certainty, and one should be very careful to emphasize that fact, because otherwise one is landed in an utter skepticism, and complete skepticism would, of course, be totally barren and completely useless. - Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic?

And I think the source for this quote "It is undesirable to believe a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it is true." is "On the Value of Scepticism" Alex 01:18, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

In general, you better just be bold and edit the article, because that way there's usually higher probability that it'd generate responses from other editors. But accompanying it with useful comments in discussion is appreciated, of course. BTW, do you also have a source for the "Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." quote? I'm guessing that it was said in relation to WWI? But I don't know.... iddo999 06:46, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

I added the new quotes. I also moved "It is undesirable..." to the sourced section. For sources, see http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell8.htm and http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell4.htm Alex 17:18, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

The following quotes are attributed to Russell. Does anyone know what the sources are?:

"The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution."

"Passive acceptance of the teacher's wisdom is easy to most boys and girls. It involves no effort of independent thought, and seems rational because the teacher knows more than his pupils; it is moreover the way to win the favour of the teacher unless he is a very exceptional man. Yet the habit of passive acceptance is a disastrous one in later life. It causes man to seek and to accept a leader, and to accept as a leader whoever is established in that position."

According to http://www.archive.org/stream/principlesofsoci00russiala/principlesofsoci00russiala_djvu.txt the above is a quote from Principles of Social Reconstruction, 1916, page 163. I don't have a copy of the book to check, though.

"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted."

Quotation about hydrogen bomb under wrong year

The quotation about the hydrogen bomb is listed in the 20s, while it should have been in the 50s. Gakrivas 20:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia's article on Russell lists the book quoted like so:

• 1925, The ABC of Relativity, London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner.

Although WP itself isn't a reliable source, I have confirmed that the U.S. Library of Congress has a 1931 copy of this book, by the same publisher (LCCN 47043127 , call number QC6. R8 1931). I admit curiosity about how someone could intelligently comment on something that wouldn't exist until nearly a quarter of a century later, although atomic energy and weaponry were topics of discussion among scientists well before they became physical reality. I would suggest we need to examine the source to see exactly what the context of this quote was (the parenthetical "[to hydrogen bombs]" is suspicious) and resolve this apparent paradox. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 21:57, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Bertrand and Coxeter

I found this quote in H.S.M. Coxeter's book Geometry "Mathematics possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty- a beauty cold and austere, like that of a sculpture, without appeal to any part of our weaker nature... sublimely pure, and capable of a stern perfection such as only the greatest art can show."

Bertrand Russell (1872- )" he wasn't dead when the book was published I don't want to fiddle in a wiki that I am not a part of so I will leave it up to you. Cheers--Cronholm144 from en.wikipedia

This can already be found on the Wikiquote page as a Sourced quotation from The Study of Mathematics (1902). - InvisibleSun 04:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Pictures ?

They put a subjective meaning to the quotes (maybe except the ones about mathematics), so although they are beautiful, I don't think they should illustrate Bertrand Russell's quotes.

google quote

Google's "quotes of the day" widget has this today:

This is one of those views which are so absolutely absurd that only very learned men could possibly adopt them. - Bertrand Russell

I see it's not on the page. Googling doesn't result in many hits. Does anyoneknow if this is a real quote and if so where it may have come from? 158.130.12.196 15:23, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

The quote is a bit off. Russell actually wrote:

• This is one of those views which are so absurd that only very learned men could possibly adopt them.
  • My Philosophical Development (1959), p. 110.

Cheers! BD2412 T 18:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced

If you can provide a reliable and precise source for any quote from this list please move it to the project page. --Antiquary 20:40, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

• Anything you're good at contributes to happiness.

• I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong.

• In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted.

• Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence; it will fade away as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines.

• You could tell by his [Aldous Huxley] conversation which volume of the Encyclopaedia Britannica he'd been reading. One day it would be Alps, Andes and Apennines, and the next it would be the Himalayas and the Hippocratic Oath. (Source: Parris, M., Scorn: With Added Vitriol, London: Penguin, 1996, quoting Russell's 1963 letter to Ronald W. Clark)

• Science is what you know, philosophy is what you don’t know.

• So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence.

• The saviors of the world, society's last hope.

• The time you enjoy wasting is not wasted time.

• The universe may have a purpose, but nothing we know suggests that, if so, this purpose has any similarity to ours.

• There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge.

• To choose one sock from each of infinitely many pairs of socks requires the Axiom of choice, but for shoes the Axiom is not needed.

• War does not determine who is right — only who is left.
  • (This was attributed by an IP to the video game Fallout 3 in this edit to the War article.)
  • This is most often attributed to Russell, when an author is given, but without any sourced citations, and the earliest occurrence I have found of it is in Coronet v. 23 (November 1947 - April 1948) , p. 150, where it seems to have been provided as "philosophy footnote" without mention of an author. ~ Kalki 02:31, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

• I am neither as drunk as a Lord, nor as sober as a Judge. I am more in the condition of a Lord Justice.

• When we look at a rock what we are seeing is not the rock, but the effect of the rock upon us.

• Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man.

• Another that's widely attributed to him is, "No matter how eloquently a dog may bark, he cannot tell you that his parents were poor, but honest." I don't know if it's verifiable, though. Angr 13:40, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

  That is a close paraphrase of an actual quote cited in the Autobiography theme article. I hesitate to add it here because this article is already so long. ~ Ningauble 15:33, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Bad Quaker grammar

"Thee" was an objective pronoun, that is, it applied when the person in question was having something done to them ("unto thee") rather than doing something ("wouldst thou?"), so Bertrand's uses of "thee" should both have been "thou". It's equivalent to having said, if he'd been talking about himself: "Me will find out in time" and "Me might observe incidentally". 213.122.13.17 12:32, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Math disinterest

Is this quote a misattribution:

Mathematics is the field where we don't know what we are talking about, nor whether it is true or false.

Searching texts has not revealed a source, yet this statement is widely attributed to Russell on the net. It may have arisen as a gloss of something on logical variables and primitive notions.

Something very close to this is attributed to Russell in Nagel and Newman's book "Gödel's Theorem", though the original source is not given.

• I've sourced it. Mysticism and Logic and Other Essays (1918): Ch. 5: Mathematics and the Metaphysicians--Collingwood (talk) 19:40, 12 April 2012 (UTC)

Intellectual

Can anyone source a quote something like: 'It could be that many people think me an intellectual, but so far no-one has had the courage to say so to my face.'

Spicemix 12:04, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone know ...

... the actual quote of Russell which it is based upon?

Bertrand Russell's prescription for an "ideal form of a work in philosophy" (quoting Arthur Danto in the. November 17, 1997 issue of the Nation): "It should begin with propositions no one would question and conclude with propositions no one would accept." (Wolff 1998, vii)

Wolff, Robert Paul. 1998. In Defense of Anarchism. Berkeley: University of California Press.