Talk:Either/Or

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VLC Icon.svg This article needs to conform to our limits on quotations policy.

The subject of this article is a book, and as a result, there should only be: five lines of prose (or eight lines of poetry) for every ten pages.

If you would like to add another quote to the page, you may first need to remove one that is already there in order to keep within the bounds of fair use of copyright material.


Copy vio concern[edit]

The quotes are from translations which are not public domain, and the extend of the material used here can raise questions about copyvio concern. For the record:

A recommended maximum of five lines of prose or eight lines of poetry for every ten pages of a book not in the public domain. This is equal to about 1.25% of the total content of a book.
  • The Kierkegaard's Writings, IV, Part II: Either/Or, Princeton University Press, 21 apr. 2013, counts 529 pages
  • With five lines of prose for every ten pages this gives us about 260 lines
  • The current section "Part Two: Or" section is according to a first rough indication now about 600 lines (meaning lines of the original text)

When these numbers are about correct, this means this section should be trimmed down 50 to 60%. -- Mdd (talk) 23:06, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Just for the record, a request for feedback has been made here. -- Mdd (talk) 14:06, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I think the trimming that has been done was a good idea, and might even have been taken a bit further. I would place less emphasis on whether translations are in the public domain, and base size restraints on the length of the underlying work. WQ:LOQ is not only about copyright considerations, but also the quality of the article. I think that article is best which showcases the very best and most famous quotes, rather than reproducing so much of the work that readers must hunt for them. I encourage contributors to resist the temptation to create a condensed book (a temptation I sometimes feel myself) and instead try to find and present just the most outstanding bits, so they will stand out. ~ Ningauble (talk) 14:02, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Different versions of this work[edit]

A complicating factor here is, that there are multiple translations, partly available online. As a start I found:

Part I:

  • Either/Or, Volume I, Edited by Victor Eremita, February 20, 1843, translated by David F. Swenson and Lillian Marvin Swenson Princeton University Press 1959/1971/1987 : 1959 edition at Google online ; Other 1959 version at Google online
  • Either/or, Vol. 1, Søren Kierkegaard, ‎Howard Vincent Hong, ‎Edna Hatlestad Hong, Princeton University Press, 1987 : 1987 edition online
  • Either/or, Vol. 1, Søren Kierkegaard, ‎Howard Vincent Hong, ‎Edna Hatlestad Hong, Princeton University Press, 1987/2013 : 2013 edition: Google eBoek

Part II:

  • Either/or: A Fragment of Life, Volume 2, Sören Aabye Kierkegaard, Princeton University Press, 1974 : Google books online
  • Either/or, Part 2, Robert L. Perkins (eds), Mercer University Press, 1 jan. 2007. 314 pages: Google books online
  • Either/Or: Part II], Søren Kierkegaard Edited and translated by Howard V. Hong and Edna H. Hong, Princeton University Press, 1988/2013 : Google books online

-- Mdd (talk) 22:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Part Two: Or double-checked and trimmed down[edit]

The Part Two: Or has been double checked. Now there is confirmation, that indeed almost all translated quotes originate from:

  • Either/Or: Part II, Søren Kierkegaard Edited and translated by Howard V. Hong and Edna H. Hong, Princeton University Press, 1988/2013

Following the Wikiquote:Limits on quotations, and the above comment, the section should be trimmed down to 50%.

Now considering this comment, I just will trimmed down every second quote. In the future this can be partly undone by restoring some, yet other quotes from Hong (1988/2013) should be the removed. There is also the possibility to trim down some of the existing quotes, to make way for other (shorter) quotes. Of Course quotes from other translations could be also added here. -- Mdd (talk) 21:57, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

The section is now trimmed down, see here. -- Mdd (talk) 22:15, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Another copy-vio check of Part I[edit]

Another copy-vio check of Part One : Either of the current version

  • The part mainly contains quotes from Swenson, 1959.
  • This part contains approximately 280 lines of the original text.
  • With a Wikiquote:Limits on quotations of five lines of prose for every ten pages of a book, a section on a 300 page book should contain only 150 lines.
  • However it is unclear whether or not this translation is in the public domain: Now I found David Ferdinand Swenson lived from 1876 to 1940, and Lillian M. Swenson died in 1961, and the translation most likely is not PD.

-- Mdd (talk) 12:18, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Conclusion: This article is over the limit and adding quotes is no longer an option here[edit]

In the above items is explained that

  • Part II is checked, and trimmed down
  • Part I is checked, and (still) has to be trimmed down

This means no new quotes can be added, only quotes can be replaced. This kind of edits is no longer an option here. -- Mdd (talk) 11:20, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Unsourced[edit]

I feel like a piece in a game of chess when my opponent says of it: That piece cannot be moved.
  • I feel like a piece in a game of chess when my opponent says of it: That piece cannot be moved.
  • Idleness, then, is so far from being the root of all evil that it is rather the true good. Boredom is the root of evil; it is that which must be held off.
  • Man's essential idea is spirit and we must not allow ourselves to be put off by the fact that he is also able to walk on two legs. The idea of language is thought, and we must not permit ourselves to be disturbed by the opinion of certain sentimental people, that its highest significance is to produce inarticulate sounds. Mozart is the greatest among the classic composers, and his Don Juan deserves the highest place among all classic works of art.
  • The movement of doubt consisted precisely in this: that at one moment he was supposed to be in the right, the next moment in the wrong, to a degree in the right, to a degree in the wrong, and this was supposed to mark his relationship with God; but such a relationship with God is not relationship, and this was the sustenance of doubt. In his relationship with another person, it certainly was possible that he could be partly in the wrong, partly in the right, to a degree in the wrong, to a degree in the right, because he himself and every human being is finite, and their relationship is a finite relationship that consists in a more or less. Therefore as long as doubt would make the infinite relationship finite, and as long as wisdom would full up the infinite relationship with the finite-just so long he would remain in doubt. Thus every time doubt wants to trouble him about the particular, tell him that he is suffering too much or is being tested beyond his powers, he forget the finite in the infinite, that he is always in the wrong. Every time the cares of doubt want to make him sad, he lifts himself above the finite into the infinite, because this thought, that he is always in the wrong, is the wings upon which he soars over the finite. This is the longing with which he seeks God; this is the love which he finds God.

Reconsidering highlighted text[edit]

In the last edit (see here), some of the highlighting of texts has been rearranged. Notes have been added considering about how much sections of text are quoted (in other books), and those sections most quoted have been highlighted. Now this was just a start. -- Mdd (talk) 14:59, 27 May 2014 (UTC)