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Talk:Immigration to the United States

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Not notable authors, WQ is not a news page

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Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion
  • The issue has also attracted the attention of Democratic presidential hopefuls... who have pledged to dismantle an industry they say has created financial incentives to lock up more prisoners and migrants... The largest share of migrant detainees are held in longer-term centers run by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Currently, about 52,000 migrants are held in ICE custody. A majority of them — 71%, according to the National Immigrant Justice Center — are housed in facilities operated by private prison companies. Immigrant activists say such secrecy has enabled the detention industry to grow with little oversight. "If there's one throughline between every single component part of the ICE detention system, it is opacity; it's like intentional lack of transparency," said Heidi Altman, director of policy at the National Immigrant Justice Center.
  • CoreCivic and GEO Group's revenues totaled a combined $4.1 billion last year, and detention contracts made up about a quarter of that. Both companies are contending with increased competition and declines in their prison businesses, but that's been offset by growth in the detention business...."Why we are in the predicament that we are is in part because of those that are invested in it," said Bianca Tylek, executive director of Worth Rises, an organization opposing privatization of prisons and detention centers... The ACLU's Fathi said the expansion of migrant detention in recent years has been driven by private business, not by the federal government.

- Rupert Loup 18:41, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Om777om this authors still didn't achive notability, this content is more suitable to Wikinews. Rupert Loup 19:23, 30 June 2019 (UTC)Reply
Rupert Loup It's an NPR article, that's notable enough. The content is essential to any logical discussion of the topic, that could lead to understanding & solving the problem. WQ is not the place to censor inconvenient & important facts.
WQ:WQ states: "Notable: We limit ourselves to quotations which are notable. A quotation can be notable because it has achieved fame due to its enduring relevance to many people, or because it is attributed to a notable individual, or appeared in a notable work." This pieces are not notable work by notable authors, they didn't achive the endurance factor and until that happen they don't have place in WQ. Rupert Loup 22:12, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
These are hardly even genuine quotes. For example, the actual space in the article between the beginning and end of the first quote is 433 words, reduced here to 128. That's essentially manufacturing a quotation from a news article. This is also not the first time this issues has been brought up. GMGtalk 17:12, 1 July 2019 (UTC)Reply

Combining key sentences to include the major points expressed in an article is not "Manufacturing a quotation".

[edit]
Latest comment: 5 years ago9 comments3 people in discussion
  • The largest share of migrant detainees... 71%, according to the National Immigrant Justice Center — are housed in facilities operated by private prison companies. Immigrant activists say such secrecy has enabled the detention industry to grow with little oversight.... CoreCivic and GEO Group's revenues totaled a combined $4.1 billion last year... The ACLU... said the expansion of migrant detention in recent years has been driven by private business, not by the federal government.
  • Combining sentences (complete or in part) to include the major points expressed in an article is not "Manufacturing a quotation". There is nothing wrong with 'getting to the point'. The point of a quotation, like the point of an article or speech could be said to consist of the the notable aspects of the information (ideas or facts) being conveyed. If the point can be summarized, more easily & quickly gleaned by readers, by attaching parts of sentences in less then 250 words, "cutting to the chase" or "getting to the point" - then it seems the editors here who strive for neutrality (unlike some) would find it acceptable, if not preferable. If there are rules that forbid that, please let me know.

Suggest that we simply agree to disagree, strive for unity in diversity & neutrality, with out any dictators/censors, or trying to use fair words to cloak foul deeds. Thank you. Om777om (talk) 20:18, 1 July 2019 (UTC)Reply

It certainly is when you are changing the meaning in any way. It isn't 71% of migrant detainees, it's 71% of those in ICE custody. There's no indication who GEO Group and CoreCivic are or why anyone cares. You leave out that detention centers made up about a quarter of that 4.1. And the ACLU didn't say that in any kind of official statement. One person who works in one part of the ACLU said it.
That's why we shouldn't be condensing an entire page of text into a sentence to make Frankenstein quotes. GMGtalk 20:37, 1 July 2019 (UTC)Reply
  • The meaning was NOT changed in anyway, though someone viewing this conflict as a contest, might see it that way. Falsely calling it a "frankenstein quote" and claiming that the meaning was changed when it was not changed is the real issue. Both of your allegations are patently false. The idea is to share the ideas presented by the source... but some see red (or perhaps for the sake of scoring points for 'their side', and staying in control, Claim to see Red) and make false, unsubstantiated allegations. Same bs, different day. Guess it all depends on where one is coming from. Om777om (talk) 04:35, 2 July 2019 (UTC)Reply
  • Yes indeed, that is correct. Thank goodness for all the diversity, and the growing interest of people all over the globe to find ways to improve our world, with the light of truth & justice. Cheers. Om777om (talk) 16:15, 2 July 2019 (UTC)Reply
    • It is not "Manufacturing a quotation" because it is not a quotation. It is a fake, a false attribution, a lie. Combining ideas is sometimes a good idea, but it is not quotation, and does not belong here at Wikiquote. Three administrators (at least) have advised you about this, but you seem to believe it is fair and just to manipulate excerpts in this way. You are mistaken, and you should be advised that inserting false information as alleged "quotes" is grounds for blocking your account. ~ Ningauble (talk) 18:31, 2 July 2019 (UTC)Reply
  • Please! Here is this is the exact, long quote:
The largest share of migrant detainees are held in longer-term centers run by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Currently, about 52,000 migrants are held in ICE custody. A majority of them — 71%, according to the National Immigrant Justice Center — are housed in facilities operated by private prison companies.
Source: https://www.npr.org/2019/06/30/736940431/under-siege-and-largely-secret-businesses-that-serve-immigration-detention
Ninguable:
This is the edited version of the above that you are calling a "fake, a false attribution, a lie"
The largest share of migrant detainees... 71%, according to the National Immigrant Justice Center — are housed in facilities operated by private prison companies.

--- i don't think that what you folks are seeing is what is happening here... What exactly is the difference? Any difference is not clear to my mind. If there is a difference, please spell it out. To my mind, there is nothing false there... i just eliminated unnecessary verbage to get to the point. Immigration and Customs Enforcement = ICE. Thank you Om777om (talk) 23:38, 4 July 2019 (UTC)Reply

No, that's one omission out of 300 words you omitted. And none of that addresses the fact that 1) this is not a place to post news, 2) the author is not notable, and 3) the quote is neither pithy or memorable. GMGtalk 00:01, 5 July 2019 (UTC)Reply
  • Clever! You switch from calling me a liar, who changed the meaning of a quote, to lecturing me about this not being the place for news.Clearly you are hung up on being "right" regardless of facts. Denial. Good intentions probably. Ok. Fine. Quotes are news, at least to everyone who lives in the present. If you want your own private wikiquotes, go to it man, but leave me out of it. Quotes are news. Quotes are history. Quotes lead forward movement of our 'civilization'. You be you. And PLEASE don't call me a liar, or try to make it look like i am a villain, when i am not. Thank you very much! Om777om (talk) 00:15, 5 July 2019 (UTC)Reply
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