Talk:Patriotism

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Policy questions

What's the general wikiquotes policy on anonymous or difficult to attribute quotes? I'm specifically thinking of the bumper sticker slogan "Dissent is patriotic", and a quote misattributed to both Julius Caesar and Shakespeare (although both are false attributions, I still think the quote itself is worth including):

Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.

-- Ttrygve 19:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Ordering and Quote by Schopenhauer

Hi, first I want to suggest to order the Quotes in Pro and Cons. I saw it in the german version of the text, and I think, it is a nice way to do it.

The other thing is, that there is a quote by Schopenhauer, which is the most intelligent thing i've ever read about this topic. Compared to this, every other quote (pros and cons) is deep shit. So maybe it would be a nice adding to the english page as well. I would translate it, but my english is not that good. Maybe someone have a look on it.

sincersly der Maxist

Unsourced

• Patriotism is easy to understand in America; it means looking out for yourself by looking out for your country.
  • Calvin Coolidge

• Patriotism, to be truely American, begins with the human allegiance.
  • Norman Cousins

• True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.
  • Clarence Darrow

• He is a poor patriot whose patriotism does not enable him to understand how all men everywhere feel about their altars and their hearthstones, their flag and their fatherland.
  • Harry Emerson Fosdick

• People tend to salute anything unnaturally bright, at least until the shade from their hands reveals what it really is.
  • James Geary

• The people are urged to be patriotic ... by sacrificing their own children. Patriotism requires allegience to the flag, which means obedience and readiness to kill father, mother, brother, sister.
  • Emma Goldman

• [The pamphlet] was very patriotic. That is, it talked about killing foreigners.
  • Terry Pratchett, Monstrous Regiment.

• True patriotism doesn't only consist in loving an ideal country, but — in loving, studying and working for the real elements of the country that are its land, community, people and all their wealth.
  • Bolesław Prus

• Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country.
  • Theodore Roosevelt

• Sure I wave the American flag. Do you know a better flag to wave? Sure I love my country with all her faults. I'm not ashamed of that, never have been, never will be.
  • John Wayne

Unsourced Disputed and Misattributed

It is dubious to include unsourced and misattributed quotations on theme pages. These are particularly dubious, since no printed source is provided.

Disputed

• Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.
  • Various; misattributed to Thomas Jefferson.
  • Earliest source The Use of Force in International Affairs, (Philadelphia: Friends Peace Committee, 1961), 6, and popularized by various users in the 1960s:
    • If what your country is doing seems to you practically and morally wrong, is dissent the highest form of patriotism?
  • Other form by Howard Zinn, Dissent In Pursuit Of Equality, Life, Liberty And Happiness: An Interview With Historian Howard Zinn by Sharon Basco, TomPaine.com, July 03 2002:
    • While some people think that dissent is unpatriotic, I would argue that dissent is the highest form of patriotism.

Misattributed

• Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.
  • Author unknown, this is often misattributed to Julius Caesar and William Shakespeare, but the earliest located occurrences of this thus far are from the year 2000.

Worth Mention?

Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel is sometimes misattributed to Isaac Asimov, who quoted it, without attribution, in one of his books. I think it was "The Gods Themselves." If someone can verify that, maybe we should mention it. —MiguelMunoz (talk) 18:52, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Quote and Image

The first image shows a picture from the Republican National Convention with the quote The Romans really were an atheistic and idolatrous people; not idolatrous with regard to images made of stone or bronze, but idolatrous with regard to themselves. It is this idolatry of self which they have bequeathed to us in the form of patriotism. The image has nothing to do with the quote, and the suggested link between them is POV pushing.

Much better would a picture of Washington and his quote Citizens by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. --1.152.108.237 00:17, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

@Rupert loup: I tend to agree with the IP. It's not clear what Reince Priebus (a comparatively minor figure in US political history) has to do with Simone Weil (a French philosopher). Washington is better, although it's still pretty America-centric on an international topic. There are a lot of choices here, Tolstoy, Shakespeare...If we want to go with a French philosopher, surely Diderot is a better choice than Weil. Using Preibus and Weil looks like A) a partisan jab to the small minority of readers who know enough to click on the picture to figure out who it is, and who are American know who Preibus is to begin with, and B) is going to be completely lost on the vast majority of readers who do not. GMG^talk 12:14, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

thanks Green Means Go --2001:8003:4085:8100:71DF:F2BF:7413:91E7 18:03, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

The consensus here is that there are a lot of better quotes to be used than those two. Rupert Loup 23:49, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Green Means Go said "Washington is better" --2001:8003:4085:8100:50BC:5096:9A18:978A 09:56, 28 November 2019 (UTC)