Wikiquote:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive/009

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[edit] CU please

May well be the same IP though one account was created last year. With a bit of luck will expose an open proxy or similar. Let me know if I can help - thanks --Herby talk thyme 07:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

They do indeed share the same IP address, appear to be from identical systems, and have closely correlated editing patterns; i.e., the same person. From what I see in the user creation log, they were both just created, Brolsma at 23:25, 1 August 2007, and Numa at 06:42, 2 August 2007. Do you have reason to believe this is more than a simple two-sockpuppet vandal? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:42, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry Jeff early for me (& if so very early for you!) and I "read" it wrong! Cross wiki issues in the log and mailed you - thanks --Herby talk thyme 07:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Just to wrap this up, the IP used by this sockpuppeting vandal turns out to be blocked now (and previosuly blocked multiple times) on at least two other projects for similar reasons:
  • Wikipedia: 15 January 2007, 23 March 2007
  • Wikibooks: 18 April 2007, 20 April 2007, 6 May 2007
Under clause #5 of m:Privacy policy#Policy on release of data derived from page logs, I provided Herbythyme this IP earlier to allow him to block it here, too, to prevent further disruption for a while. (He actually knew it from his own experience with this vandal, but I wanted to follow the forms for my first official CU action.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Username block: Retard1016 (talk · contributions)

Thanks, Will {talk) 15:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Will, could you explain why, please? My quick check shows no WQ activity except adding arguably excessive and/or unpithy quotes to Dead Like Me. This would be a content dispute that should first be dealt with by editing, second by talk page discussion, and third by requests for assistance. Is there something else I'm not seeing? Or is your request on the basis of objectionable username? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 16:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it's the username (hence the header) - sorry for the kind of harshness, though. Will {talk) 16:29, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Not convinced that it's a blockable name, though it's rather tasteless.--Poetlister 16:47, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I blocked one called Bastard1 the other day which led to this! I guess comments would be good - some are obvious, some aren't? Thanks --Herby talk thyme 07:00, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
Not amiable name but not obviously disruptive - it depends on user's behavior, I think. --Aphaia 11:27, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dratsab (talk · contributions)

Hi all! I noticed an addition by an IP to this userpage via recent changes, and discovered that it's been used as a repository of inane quotes, and it has been for over a year now. They keep being added by the user himself and an IP, clearly the same editor as they don't get removed nor reverted. The user has only edited his userpage, and nothing else; and I don't need to tell you the outcome of spelling his name backwards, do I... Some of the quotes are plain silly, while others are in very bad taste and/or racist. The bigger problem is, they are attributed to a certain "Greg Huffman", whom I believe to be a very unremarkable amateur wrestler. However, there are many people who share that name, including a professional photographer [1]. Of course, Google has indexed this userpage, and search for that name can lead anyone performing it right to it - which can certainly be construed as an attack. I was wondering if any actions should be taken regarding this issue, so I'll leave that to your judgement. Best regards, Phaedriel - 20:46, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

ummm... that is very upsetting!!! IMO, it should be deleted right now (it is highly racist, rude, unnecessary, infringing our WQ:USER policy, and otherwise defaming to someone if there name happens to be Greg Huffman)... if anyone disagrees with this action, feel free to speak out here! :) Cbrown1023 talk 02:22, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Well I was going to do an indef block on the user, then I was going to ask first and then I read the name backwards so I blocked them! However I think it may be appropriate to place a short block on the IP (user:67.185.216.219) or at the very least a very strongly worded message on their talk page? --Herby talk thyme 10:41, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
In general, if we put a block on a user, giving the reason on his or her talk page will be more friendly than reason only in log/block. --09:48, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Agreed I should have done that and will do so in future (sometimes time is short and a block necessary) - given the preoccupation with the word this user may be linked.--Herby talk thyme 09:53, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CU checks please

Two blocked vandal accounts worth a look for open proxies/history I think. User:George HW Bush & WoW is a limey - may or may not be related, thanks --Herby talk thyme 07:16, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Plus User:Chocolate Rain! please. Doubt there is a connection but there may be another opne proxy etc, thanks --Herby talk thyme 11:05, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
This last one I may have already blocked the IP for as, lacking some sense & imagination, they vandalised Commons under the same name and last week vandalised en Books! --Herby talk thyme 11:26, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
  • interrupt
    • CU results per se gives no suggestion of relation between User:George HW Bush and User:WoW is a limey. Both accounts use one IP address which are assigned to the different US ISP. The IP addresses have not been used as anon or by other registered users.
    • User:Chocolate Rain! used 77.101.38.4 (talk · contributions) and only. This IP address is assigned to a UK provider. The anon edit was a disruptive content to the main namespace, claiming that he or she had been WoW, and blocked for one month by Herby on 9 August 2007. Regarding CU result, I extended the term to six months, preventing account creation.
    • According to nullnetwork.net, all three IP addresses are not TOR node.
    • Copy of results will be sent to Jeff as ENWQ CU for further reference. --Aphaia 10:23, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


  • back
Excuse me ignorence...but what is a "CU"? Xemit talk to me 17:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your question: abbreviation of CheckUser, a sort of tool to detect disruptive editors. Technical information is available on that page. --Aphaia 18:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Do we need a separate RfCU page for these requests? I hope they won't be very frequent.--Poetlister 18:46, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I personally don't think it is necessary. We manage fine on en Books without it. --Herby talk thyme 18:49, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Regarding the pros and cons to have a separate RfCU,
pros
  • all public requests and reports will come to this page, it may bring the visibility
  • easier to trace discussions, particularly in the archives
  • hopefully make it easier to link to other projects' RfCU, if exist
cons
  • new page to watch; does it make sysop task much complicated?
  • still, we are not sure if all requests and performed checks are found there. It may depends on the local policy we'll develop (note: CheckUser Policy doesn't forbid CUs to accept requests privately, while some project - I heard French Wikipedia does so - accepts only public requests due to French jurisdiction requirements). It may increase only complexity, and give a mere illusion of transparency.
  • Is it too much overwhelmed? We have even no request page for blocking and banning.
Please note, I have no strong opinoin about this issue, and would rather love to hear your ideas. --Aphaia 10:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AFUSCO

i am AFUSCO. i have been blocked but i did not vandalize i have identified the ilikepies as my neighbors on my network which i have now secured please respond where you want but i did not vandalize or make any bad edits. AFUSCO 00:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

This comment on the above was posted by 67.87.225.29 (talk · contributions), not by AFUSCO (talk · contributions).
I'm in two halves over this - One side, I'm willing to AGF on this, but account creation should still be blocked on his IP and a keen eye on the creation log, but the other side says to me that he'll continue the vandalism. Will {talk) 01:01, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, keep a close watch and block if new vandalism happens. No real harm likely if we assume good faith. :) FloNight 02:59, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but this stretches credibility beyond the breaking point. AFUSCO's first edit here was to request adminship, which is not something a new editor should even know about, let alone ask for. The "ilikepie" business started up several days later, starting with 67.87.225.29 (talk · contributions) and running through numbered versions of "ilikepie". This is a well-worn (one might even say pedestrian) pattern of sockpuppet-based vandalism, where one person pretends to be two or more inexplicably wiki-savvy new editors who insult and vandalize each other, then complain to admins for help. Furthermore, the request above is essentially the same argument that a Wikipedia editor, using this IP and implying he was the proper possessor of it, made unsuccessfully a month ago at w:User talk:67.87.225.29. He promised to "permanently revoke [the neighbors'] access to wikipedia using this ip (website block of the wikipedia.org domain)", an unfathomably limited restriction on someone who had severely harrassed him on Wikiquote a month earlier. All in all, I can't believe the sincerity of this user. The scenario he paints is not impossible, but is highly implausible. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Me too, he broke the trust for months. I think now it unrealistic to claim to AGF in this point. The real harm is our own time to recover his vandalism and I think my time and my fellows' precious. --Aphaia 08:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Also, I would add two points: 1) evasion of blocking is not acceptable. 2) This anon created monobooks.js for this address. I think it also unacceptable. Ip addresses are not assigned to one and sole person, such user settings are unappropriate. Even now, this guy behave so selfishly. --Aphaia 08:25, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I am strongly inclined to block the IP however I am aware that there are varying views on IP block length. The IP has been blocked twice before the last one being a month - I would now be inclined to a minimum of 3 months --Herby talk thyme 08:34, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Sounds reasonable to me, but on the other hand, our rule still says the maximum length should be one month. And I strongly hesitate to surpass it. We would like to revise the rule? --Aphaia 08:36, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
For the time connections between the edits of User:AFUSCO and the ilikepie vandals, see this previous discussion - InvisibleSun 09:00, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I do think that consideration given to allowable block lengths - my views are on this page. The idea of something longer for such persistent disrupters across wikis seems valid to me --Herby talk thyme 09:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
I was unaware that my neighbors were on my network until i was autoblocked on wikipedia and that is why i did not cut off their access and i only used my first edit to nominate myself for adminship because i noticed how few admins there are and i new about the policy from other wiki's 67.87.225.29 15:21, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Seems that you have worn out your welcome here with the folks that had to fix the messes coming from your IP address. It was before my time and was not aware of the extent of the disruption you caused. It is much too soon for another chance. Maybe later down the road feelings will change if you stay away and do not attempt to evade your block. Take care, FloNight 20:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
  • reset

About the length of blocking in general, the rule has "elastic clause" (I forgot it in details). It says

Sysops are chosen for their good judgement and ability to act in Wikiquote's best interests. As long as the block is not punitive, a sysop may block a user or IP address for more time than outlined above or for a different offense than outlined above. If this matter becomes an issue, the blocked user may e-mail another administrator and the matter may brought to the Administrators' noticeboard pending a consensus of the community. (italicized by the quoter)

So, different from what I said before, along the general feeling on the community and only then (so I believe), blocking for more than a month would be acceptable. It may be supported by the recent discussion on the mailing list: disruptions from a certain editor long for a long time, like this case, a long term blocking doesn't hurt the community's best interests. I'm strongly inclining to support the proposed blocking by Herby, for months. On the other side, I am not happy to wear out this clause, so I'd invite the community to revise the rule to reflect recent incidents and their lessons, for not overuse the elastic clause. Here is a draft for Blocking policy revision, please give a look and join the discussion! --Aphaia 09:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CU Process

i am just wondering why there is not a seperate page for CU --Alextheman 01:09, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Think to make it easier to watch. The more separate pages it gets to be more difficult to keep an eye on all of them. Makes sense not to add more pages than truly needed. FloNight 02:53, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Agree with Flonight - this is not like wikipedia - everyone knows each other and there are not a large mass of pages for folk to watch - nice & quiet and we like it like that! --Herby talk thyme 07:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please change my name

From Edmundkh to EdmundEzekielMahmudIsa, and then leave me a message in the English Wikipedia. Thank you very much! --Edmundkh 15:48, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Done. however requested notice won't be given by myself. --Aphaia 19:27, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mike Tyson

There's been a huge flurry of activity on Mike Tyson by two anons. I find it difficult to assess whether it's vandalism o rnot. Can someone else check please.--Cato 21:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

It looks like a massive addition of putatively sourced self-critical quotes from Tyson. This is not vandalism, which is the defacing of wiki pages. However, it surely puts a huge burden on the other editors of that article in analyzing the content. Since Wikiquote doesn't try to collect everything that someone says, but only a subset of especially memorable statements, one could approach it by selecting a set of the more memorable quotes that represent the ideas listed, ensuring that the sources are wiki-reliable and accurate (preferably converting them to proper citations to make the source-checking easier for everyone), and deleting the rest with a justification along the lines of "rm excessive quoting" or "trimming to pithy subset". It's basically a content dispute after that. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:07, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Someone returns?

User:DratsabReturnsGG and the talk page - have we not dealt with (deleted, blocked) this before under "dratsab" and/or variations? --Herby talk thyme 08:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

We had! I've dealt with it again - see above --Herby talk thyme 08:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mortgageboard

InvisibleSun deleted this yesterday; it was re-created and I deleted it. How do you stop an article being re-created? [2]--Cato 21:25, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

List them Wikiquote:Protected titles. --Aphaia 21:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks - done.--Cato 21:35, 2 September 2007 (UTC)


It seems to be a crosswiki vandal, intending to harass Foundation people:

  • On meta, User:82.42.237.84 posted the same article, harassing Sandy Ordonez. (deleted, I put one year blocking on this IP address).
  • On this project, this was created by two anons respectively, and their addresses were different from meta one. Interesting ly, one of them posted a nonsense about Jimbo to User talk:Kalki.

This vandalism seems to be persistent vandal, please watch them carefully. --Aphaia 21:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:70.187.21.89

I've blocked this IP for 48 hours as all its edits seemed to be vandalism. We need to monitor it after the block expires.--Cato 21:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome from anon

How do you think about that? 24.123.38.215 (talk · contributions)--Aphaia 22:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I don't like it. It doesn't give them any one to contact and it appears weird to new users... :-) Cbrown1023 talk 23:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Me either. Anonymity doesn't mix with responsibility in my opinion. I don't think only sysops must welcome newcomers, but expect at least registered editors with some experience on this project. We are not too exclusive, if we ask the anon not to do that again? --Aphaia 04:35, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of new articles on Main Page

The list currently includes Blue Dragon and Star Fox: Command, which are both up for deletion. Should we have a policy of excluding articles on VfD from the Main page?--Poetlister 11:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Or guideline. I support their removal. --Aphaia 11:44, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I've found it quite useful in the past to have such articles in such a prominent location. I used to bring up each one in turn and clean it up, add to it, or nominate it for deletion. I thought of it as a good way to call attention to new articles, rather than as a kind of "good article" list which would merit removing questionable ones from the list. (Of course, if we deleted an article before the list was changed, we'd typically remove it immediately from the list, possibly replacing it with another new article.) Since our Wikiquote:Good articles effort seems to be languishing, perhaps we should encourage this view of the new-page list? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Good point, that reminds me we have no other pages or columns for taking attention. We have categories but it is not sure they are watched (I give sometimes a look to Category:Wikiquote no intro, check some special pages and visit WQ:VFD but not so much eager to other clean-up categories.
I suppose there are largely two kinds of approach.
  1. Anything clear and beauty on the front, otherwise it will be behind the scene: I think Poetlister is inclining to this direction.
  2. Anything need to attention (both goodies and baddies) on the front (and it is my summary of Jeff's.
I think both approaches have their rationales ... how about the third one? We have Wikiquote:Community portal. Can we have a new column for pages need to attention? Pages requested, need to cleanup, no-intro ... VFD paticular if votes are extended. How do you think that? --Aphaia 15:11, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
The real question is, as Aphaia suggests, whether anyone is watching any of these approaches for this purpose. Since Kalki usually selects the new pages, I assume he was thinking like me (or more accurately, I started thinking like him) in treating these as articles to review. But I really don't know if anyone else is doing this. Nor have I looked recently to see if anyone is using our existing maintenance categories to actually fix a substantial number of problems. Unless we have an abundence of editors using these categories and lists, I'm not sure how creating more places for them to look, or more ways to "slice and dice" Wikiquotian attention, will help the project. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 16:08, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
One possible solution might be to revive Wikiquote:Useful links and make it more visible, it is a nice portal for maintainance work, although I use mainly Jeff's page myself which was the origin of "useful links" and better maintained. --Aphaia 16:24, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Just adding a bit on my own past practices: when making selections for the new pages I have usually simply grabbed the latest ones which weren't already nominated for deletion, or a few that were very obviously undeveloped and very likely to become nominated. Whichever pages became nominated for deletion beyond those have usually been removed once the pages themselves were deleted. I have rarely focused on making changes on a regular basis, and have usually let selections sit for a couple weeks or even more, but other admins have always been welcome to change them sooner than that. After the next few weeks, in which I am focusing primarily on many "material world" matters, I might try to increase the rate of changeover to a roughly weekly basis, but make no promises. ~ Kalki 18:11, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I think it's worth making some effort in the selection of articles for the front page. It's a showcase, and if people look at these articles and find piles of crap, what will they think of us? I shall be bold and amend the list immediately.--Cato 20:55, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, new pages are almost have to be something less than our best examples of articles. As the above discussion indicates, we haven't been using them like Wikipedia uses its "Feature Article" process. In fact, there's no regular effort I'm aware of even to ensure that any of the articles listed on the main page are currently up to any Wikiquote standards. I'd suggest that, if we are really concerned about using articles listed on the main page as showcase material, we invest the effort to make the stuff that isn't rotated out much better, before we worry about articles that are inherently likely to be substandard. Or are you volunteering to, on a regular basis, improve all new articles before placing them on the main page, Cato? ☺ ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:20, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't object to the changes just made by Cato, but like JeffQ I really don't see a need to showcase only good articles among the new ones. I do think it is generally a good idea to allow undeveloped articles to be listed, so long as they exist, even if they later become nominated for deletion. I do actually make some effort to update the list at points where there have been mostly good-quality articles on more than a very narrow range of subjects, which is one reason I have never kept to any set "schedule" — I have generally avoided updating when we have had a flood of rather poor or "single-issue" additions, though I have also usually declined to update much more frequently than normal even when we have had a flood of very good ones with broader themes.
On somewhat related matters, though I have often speedily deleted plain nonsense and vandalism, I have never been a "deletionist" of articles that could simply be improved, and seldom have taken action to remove them. In apparent sympathy with most of the regular editors here, I can confess I have no real liking of the plethora of electronic game quotes and inane wrestling exclamations that have often appeared, yet I have never been inclined to actually exclude them or remove material that is fairly well formatted, doesn't exceed fair use provisions, or isn't an unsourced libel of anyone, no matter how little personal interest I have had in the subjects. That many of the other regular editors have seen fit to delete many of the less weighty articles by consensus polling I can also admit has only slightly disturbed me, though I do think there is sometimes an overzealousness to delete articles on more worthy subjects that simply aren't well developed. I've usually not had much time myself to work on them, so I have very rarely objected even in these cases, and usually have done at least some work on the page if I have. When I've had the time to become involved with a poor article at all, I've usually been inclined to improve it to at least a level of adequacy rather than nominate it for deletion. ~ Kalki 00:23, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] impersonator

i have been away from wikiquote for a while but do you know where i can report an impersonator of my other wiki accounts on wikiquote? i appreciate the help.--Alextheman 15:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

  • I would like to suggest

1) it is doubtful he has intentionally been away from the project, rather compulsory. 2) The IP addresses he uses are multiple, and both were used by AFUSCO, and hence blocked for a while. Alextheman was back to the project just after those blocking were automatically lifted up. 3) claim of harassment (and persecutors were often himself) was a typical action pattern of AFUSCO too. I therefore presume Alextheman is a sock of AFUSCO (talk · contributions) and propose for banning that account infitely. --Aphaia 15:37, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that this seems to be one of the more pathetic trolls we get from time to time, intent on wasting their own time and that of anyone else they happen upon with inane queries and disputes. I have no objections to a block, especially if this is an impersonator of other users, though I doubt that this will entirely prevent such activity until the person involved actually grows up. ~ Kalki 18:44, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
what do you have against my statement i will save you the trouble of going crazy over this i am rarely here anyway i am user reqesting an indefinite block on my username and i would like to punch a hole your theory my account was created before the block was lifted as determined by block log--Alextheman 00:57, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Saikano

Claimed Saikano sockpuppets have been complaining for the past two weeks that they cannot access the original account, User:Saikano. I decided to do a checkuser to help analyze the situation. Here's a summary:

Some additional history:

  • w:User:Saikano (who our Saikano claims to be) and his sockpuppets have been banned from Wikipedia for disruptive editing and sockpuppetry. The basis of this seems to be refusal to accept community decisions on proper content, both for articles (creating original research and other unsourced material) and in auxiliary pages (using WP for social networking, refusal to accept policies, recurring incivility, etc.).
  • Our Saikano seems to have engaged primarily in four activities:
    1. Working on Saikano (anime) (now moved to Saikano).
    2. Posting rambling material to his user pages (but that's mostly his perogative, unless it's a copyvio).
    3. Creating web-parody articles (since deleted) with no regard to proper sourcing or notability.
    4. Engaging in repeated sockpuppet creation and posting frantic messages, trying to get his original account accessible again, after being told we can't do this for him. (See Help:Logging in#What if I forget the password? for policy.)

Typically, Wikiquote gives banned users from other projects (who don't immediately begin abusing their editing privileges) the opportunity to rehabilitate their usernames by demonstrating plenty of good-faith editing (which need not be fully compliant right away with policies and practices, but should show a gradual learning and acceptance of such). Except for the recent bout of sockpuppetry, most of Saikano's questionable edits were in May-June.

Considering the recent sockpuppetry alone, I believe our concerns about frequent impersonations were unfounded in this case. While we cannot restore access to Saikano's original account, we might allow him to continue editing under one of his other usernames. However, I suggest we require that he identify all sockpuppets and promise not to use them to evade blocks. (We might block all but his chosen preferred new username. I'd suggest leaving at least User:Saikano unblocked, just in case he recovers his password himself, but we'd still insist that he stick to one account at a time and not evade blocks.)

All of this should be predicated on his learning Wikiquote policies and practices. In particular, I think he could demonstrate an understanding of Wikiquote article formatting most usefully by the long-overdue cleanup of the article Saikano. What does everyone else think about this? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 17:53, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Jeff, I wholeheartedly agree and appreciate your research. It's probably even more than this user deserves, but we'll continue to assume good faith. Thanks. ~ UDScott 18:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Just to be clear, I'm still on the fence about it, otherwise I would have blocked or unblocked him myself. He abused our good faith several months ago, but I don't want to dismiss him after our delay in confirming he was telling the truth about his old account. (I take responsibility for the delay. This is the first WQ case I've seen where someone incessantly demanding their account access be restored wasn't an imposter, so I can't blame anyone for not calling for a CU. But as the checkuser not participating in the discussions, I should have jumped in to do a check much earlier.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 18:16, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm an old softy, but I'll assume good faith.--Cato 21:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

A bit late, I would like to say three things
  1. As co-checkuser, reviewed the further details too which Jeff let me share (we exchange detailed CU results always), I endorse his analysis of user identification.
  2. There is a relevant report on WQ:VP from me about my recent sysop action; I blocked User:Akemi, one sock listed here due to disruptiveness and less productivity.
  3. A related action of Akemi2.0 is found on my talk. As he did on English Wikipedia, this user showed no hesitation to evade blocking.
Since I interacted with this user in the period his disruptiveness was quite obvious (this June), my point of view may have become severer biased by my own experience. Also I made an action already, so I'd rather invite the community to review the investigation of Jeff and related action around this series of accounts as well as sysop actions around those, not to voice my further opinion currently. --Aphaia 02:32, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Look Im sorry ok?! I did not mean to disrupt the site, create multi-sockpuppets, make idiotic crap pages, ect...! i am even more sorry for this account now but its my only way of communicating to the site! I was unaware of I was causeing this site any problems but I am sorry for it! I beg you all to give me another chance! Please! By the way Wikipedia's banning was a misunderstanding and Ill fix it! --Nijikon 15:51, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
I've made another attempt to explain the situation to our stubborn fellow, this time at User talk:Nijikon#User:Saikano. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:55, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sabrina Ward Harrison VfD

This VfD has been extended twice now and is now overdue for closure, so we really need to close it, but there are few active admins that haven't participated in it, and there's enough confusion in the situation to make it a little challenging to do so, suggesting that someone not involved do the closing. (I'd be happy to discuss why I think it's still a little confusing, but I don't think I can do so without implicitly recommending a solution, and I don't want to taint the process.) I think we've got a good test case for the situation recently discussed at WQ:VP#VfD. Could one of our admins who hasn't expressed an opinion on this article take a shot at closing it? Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 17:46, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I've closed as a keep. I did express an opinion on the old version (weak keep; thought she was notable but shouldn't keep a copyvio) but the new version is completely different and I'm 100% certain it's a keep. If anyone disagrees, well, it's time we tried out our deletion review policy! --Cato 21:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, Cato. My concern was that three editors express unchanged "delete" or "delete as copyvio" positions. I suspected LrdChaos and Ubiquity would have been content with interpreting their votes as no longer applying after the copyvio fix, but I prefer not to infer and didn't want to solicit explicit votes supporting my position. And Herbythyme is offline until next week. Even so, we seemed to be squeaking by with a 6-3 consensus, but I felt uncomfortable being the one to make that assessment. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

I was neutral before but am definitely keep now.--Poetlister 17:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Editing of protected template : {{Vblock}}

Hello,

Could a sysop please make the following modifications to Template:Vblock please ?

  • [[Wikiquote:Administrators|Adminstrator]] --> [[Wikiquote:Administrators|administrator]]
  • <includeonly>~~</includeonly>~~ to be deleted/changed in the default message, it doesn't work (see User:Persian Poet Gal for example)

Thanks! chtit dracotalk 05:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. Thank you for your report :) --Aphaia 06:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
No problem. Though there still is a mistake : adminstrator should be replaced by administrator ;-) I know I'm annoying :-p chtit dracotalk 19:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Done! And don't worry - you're not being annoying. ~ UDScott 19:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

May I point out {{pwelcome}}, which is the same as {{welcome}} except that it is self-signing. The same modification can be made to other templates. Poetlister 21:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User:Danzilgoes

I have blocked User:Danzilgoes for 24 hours for vandalism. The user page suggests that this is a bot run by a Wikipedia administrator. i hope that's not true!--Cato 21:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked four socks indefinitely. Can we please have an urgent checkuser to block the IP.--Cato 22:00, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
That was excellent fast work, folks! Cato and InvisibleSun blocked all but one of this "pick pick" vandal's sockpuppets, each within minutes of its initial activity. (I've blocked the only other one, JazBot3 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log).) My checkuser runs indicate this is a bit more complicated than the usual set of vandal sockpuppets, so it'll take me a little while to collate the information and draw some useful conclusions. I'll report the results anon. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 03:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your research, Jeff (I'm just back from Wikimania things). I agree with you it is quite complicated and take a time to analyze properly. So thank you for your coming extensive research and giving the insight in advance :) --Aphaia 11:57, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
It was a cross wiki issue to some degree. A number of IPs were Open Proxies and I have now blocked them as such (together with a few more I found). Thanks Jeff & Cato, always worth checking those who purport to be someone well known elsewhere on wiki (I was caught by a Cary Bass impersonator a couple of months back!) --Herby talk thyme 12:06, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
  • I helped by tagging pages with Template:Delete as they came. I'll try and get involved in stopping vandalism more here. Good work, Jeffq. --SunStar Net 17:36, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for the delay in reporting back. Because this "pick pick" vandal used multiple open proxies that have been blocked, and that these proxies may have been unwitting accomplices, I don't believe a detailed public report is necessary or advisable. Anyone who needs more information should contact me through my email link. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Verizon vandal to stop

OK, guys, watch out for this.... Verizon IPs are attacking multiple projects... and apparently employees from Verizon's abuse department are responsible for this.

Don't know if you can stop it, but hey, just a warning... --Hodhith22 08:57, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

The IP tagged by this user is not a Verizon one. I removed the tag and told the user. I suggest a watchful eye might be appropriate though, thanks --Herby talk thyme 10:56, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CHU

Hi! Can a bureaucrat please rename my account from the present username to "Mafeu" (privacy reasons). Cheers! MatthewFenton 22:08, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

This has been done. ~ Kalki 22:19, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! Mafeu 22:30, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Errr - other views please

Spotted this User:C and wondered so looked around and found this, then this and then this. If there were barnstars for sandbox edits that would be fine..... I'll be interested in others views, thanks --Herby talk thyme 18:30, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

For the record, that's 256 edits to the sandbox (as of this date). Weird, but harmless. BD2412 T 20:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
So far, I've seen no harm in anything he's done here. (I just reviewed his edits in some depth, and while it shows an odd selection of activities, none seem to be the kinds we normally associate with problem editors preparing for mischief. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say he's trying to do mostly small, useful maintenance edits without controversy while he learns Mediawiki in some depth.) I have just asked him to create his own sandbox so that he doesn't scare aware newbies who might get confused with so much activity on the community sandbox. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 22:12, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
The multiple accounts issue was what I was wondering about as much as anything I guess? --Herby talk thyme 09:03, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
They seem to be open accounts and not sockpuppets. I once blocked someone on Wikipedia (for 15 minutes) for excessive edits to the sandbox, and when asked they said that they were trying to break the record for most edits in one minute. As BD2412 says, this is wierd but harmless at the moment. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 11:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, let's not bite newbies. If they do anything seriously disruptive, we can take action.--Cato 11:49, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
On the multiple-user subject, this pricked the interest of some editors earlier. But as the three earlier usernames (Inappropriate (talk · contributions), Appropriate (talk · contributions), and P (talk · contributions)) had only a handful of edits (all but 1 to the Sandbox, since deleted), and zero edits after "C" was created, I just asked C to identify his sockpuppets and avoid using them, which he promptly did. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 12:20, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 68.38.199.0

Can someone please look through this IP's edits; extremely strong POV that may need toning down, e.g. on Mitt Romney. I haven't time right now.--Poetlister 17:14, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

BD2412 and I have been through all the edits. He clearly has a POV, but where there are legitimate quotations I have left them.--Cato 21:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Heads up

Creation of pages or blanking leading to a random string of letters. This is prevalent across wikis over the past few days. So far all have come from Open Proxies & I have been blocked them as such (hard blocked, 1 year). I'll not change the recent blocks placed though others may wish to review them but this is affecting all wikis that I watch at present, cheers --Herby talk thyme 11:14, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

OK I've changed some of the recent blocks where they are confirmed as Open Proxies elsewhere with the same activity. I lack the time at present but if any admin wishes to review my blocklist on Meta and/or Commons of the past few days you will find some more to block if you wish to, thanks --Herby talk thyme 12:00, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Edit MediaWiki:Newarticletext

I've been wondering around trying to find the right place to request a edit to a protected page. Usually I would use {{Edit protected}}, but it doesn't existe. So, as I mentioned on the talk, could you add the buttons found on User:Steinninn/Create to MediaWiki:Newarticletext. Thanks. --Steinninn 23:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Declined for now. There is no concensus for addition. I would add that it doesn't seem to work. If you put any button, it bring you to edit the page, User:Steinninn/Create, not create a new article. I personally think it pointless to add those code as requested. --Aphaia 12:16, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
If I understand the intent here, since this would be part of MediaWiki:Newarticletext, which is displayed when a new page is created, the {{SUBJECTPAGENAMEE}} parameter would be replaced with the title of the new page, so that pressing the button (which includes a preload of our Wikiquote:Templates subpages) would have the same effect as filling in a page title in the equivalent input boxes at Help:Starting a new page. (It only uses Steinninn's page because it's embedded there, not in the new-article header page.) But I haven't studied it enough or experimented to confirm this. However, Aphaia has a point. This kind of thing is usually discussed on the relevant talk page (MediaWiki talk:Newarticletext here), and if you want to bring full community attention to it, you should post a note about it at Wikiquote:Village pump. Administrators have the ability to make such a change, but the content of such pages and changes in procedures are a community decision. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:15, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
This had been on the talk page for a few weeks, so I thought it was time for an edit, but if you want discussion then I put it up at Wikiquote:Village pump. --Steinninn 03:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Somewhat less available — I'm back!

I know I haven't been around too much lately, but I'll probably be around even less during the month of November. I'm trying my hand at NaNoWriMo again this year, and it'll probably be a big time sink. I've put up an availability notice on my user & talk pages in case anyone should come looking for me. You can e-mail me if anything important comes up, though I probably will be at least checking here every so often, so if you leave a message on my user talk page I'll eventually get it. —LrdChaos (talk) 13:21, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

It's great to have you for whatever time you can spare. Good luck with the NaNoWriMo project! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:36, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


Just a heads up, but my NaNoWriMo attempt this year was a flop, so I decided to pop back up a few days early. —LrdChaos (talk) 18:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Permanent account block

Please permanently block my account User:Петър Петров as I use the latin-letter one User:Petar Petrov. User and talk pages are already redirected. Thanks. --Петър Петров 19:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Done.--Cato 22:19, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request to change username from H2O to King of Hearts

Hi. I would like to change my username from User:H2O to User:King of Hearts to be consistent with other my other projects. Here is my confirmation dummy edit on the English Wikipedia: [3]. Thanks. -- H<sub>2</sub>[[User talk:H2O|O]] 06:45, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

This has been done. ~ Kalki 07:07, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Username change (vishwin60 to O)

Please change my username to O to prevent any mishaps of SUL in the future. To confirm that I own other accounts on other projects that have the same username, here is my matrix. Thanks, vishwin60 20:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Done / 好了。--Aphaia 19:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Change Username

Done. --Aphaia 21:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. --Hamsterlopithecus 00:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia account

Grateful for advice please. I tried to start a Wikipedia account as Yehudi. I can't because there is already an account of that name. However, that account has never done anything. Is there a way to take over the account or get it renamed?--Yehudi 13:00, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a page Wikipedia:Changing username/Usurpations which describes how to make such requests. ~ Kalki 13:09, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
I see, thanks. Looks like I have to start an account with another name and use that for a few months before I can make the request.--Yehudi 14:42, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ilikepie or his imitator

Hi Ilikepie is now choosing the way to be a cross-wiki vandal. He appeared on Japanese Wikiquote. If you are active on another project, it may be wise to be wary. --Aphaia 07:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Username

I wish to change my username, removing my dob, which I strongly regret publishing. From Smb1971 to Smb. Ta. smb 21:12, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

This has now been done. ~ Kalki 21:34, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Closing VfD for Never

Jus to note I closed a VfD that was a clear keep. Apologies if that was presumptuous.--Yehudi 15:05, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Yehudi, I applaud your initiative, but an administrator is supposed to take responsibility for closing VfDs, per Wikiquote:Deletion policy#Finishing a vote for deletion. Even when the consensus may seem apparent, there are often other considerations, as this is not a simple voting-counting process. In this one, we had 3 keeps and 1 move, a rather low participation for current VfDs, as well as a lot of relevant side discussion. This suggests that most folks hadn't made up their minds yet or were busy with other things (like Thanksgiving preparations?). It may be useful in these situations to extend the discussions. In any case, the current system expects admins to make such judgment calls, as they have been formally entrusted with these responsibilities and take the heat for any problems that arise. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 16:46, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Please, let's not bite newbies. This was absolutely clear-cut, and on Wikipedia it would have been quite appropriate for a non-admin close. I would have closed it myself earlier today, but felt too involved with the article having contributed most of it. Yehudi was technically wrong to close it because he's not an admin (yet), but he should be encouraged.--Poetlister 23:10, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
I didn't mean to bite, only to point out that (apparently unlike Wikipedia) we have a policy leaving closures to admins. We have a hard enough time getting participants to read the policies before participating, so I think the feeling has been to keep this responsibility in the hands of the folks who have already demonstrated their knowledge of and work within policies. On the other hand, I certainly noticed that Yehudi did all the steps correctly, short of archiving (often delayed anyway to give folks a chance to see the results), which is why I didn't revert the closure or change anything.
If no one feels left out of the discussion, we can let it stand, although an admin should confirm it. (I had been thinking about extending the discussion and commenting, but if I'd felt that strongly about it, I would have done so earlier. I try to encourage extensions in low-participation discussions, especially around major holidays — I think I extended quite a few last Christmas.) By the way, I have to say that I wasn't thinking of Yehudi as a newbie. I've seen his work and posts in so many places in the past 5 weeks that I've already gotten to thinking of him as a regular. ☺ ~ Jeff Q (talk) 02:24, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

While I am personally content to keep it, but indeed because I feel so, and concerning the relatively inactive discussion (due to US holidays?), I reverted his edit on discussion page and talk. While I unintentionally left the archive page ... (so it can be seen from the archive page). I think Jeff didn't bite him - hopefully Yehudi feels so too - and Jeff made his remark well and civil. If any admin take my action harsh or inappropriate, please feel free to re-revert it again. --Aphaia 11:20, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

It isn't important but I am with Poetlister here. I accept the fact that closures are done by admins here but to me it is unnecessary. Certainly with a "keep" like that I felt it was fine (I saw it on RC). Quite some time before I was an en wb admin I was closing VfDs (however - there almost no one else bothered, they are rather less organised that here).
Participation in the community as a whole is something I applaud --Herby talk thyme 14:09, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
It looks like we have a substantial difference of opinion on a policy, which is often a good sign that it's time to review the policy. I suggest we take it up at Wikiquote talk:Deletion policy (and let folks know about it at WQ:VP), so that the community can be clear on what everyone should and shouldn't do.
Meanwhile, Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Never is in an indeterminate state. While Aphaia reverted the closure, she didn't restore the {{vfd}} tag, and the discussion is formally not closed but is past its deadline and has not been extended. I'd like to clean this up. Unless another admin chooses either to extend it or completely close it by midnight tonight (UTC), I will extend it myself and make some comments I'd been considering so it's not just an exercise in formality. But I have no problem with a closure, if folks prefer. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 15:42, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Don't see anything wrong with closing myself, and I'll do it unless there's a good reason not to. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 21:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd agree to closure. Yes, much to my surprise Yehudi is still a newbie; he's made only 78 edits since 18 October.--Cato 22:35, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to cause a storm. I was just trying to be helpful.--Yehudi 12:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legitimacy of a newbie contrib

Can anyone review my revert at revision? I felt it intuitively inappropriate, but I don't know this person themed on that article, I may have been wrong. --Aphaia 11:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

To me the reversion looks good and maybe an eye on future contribution (though I too could be wrong). --Herby talk thyme 14:05, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
The only problem I have (in general) with such tool-based reversions is that they imply vandalism, which as Aphaia suggests is not necessarily the case for some subjects known for their scatalogical, vandal-like "quotes". My preference is to manually revert with an edit summary like "rv unsourced [X] quote", with "[X]" being whatever is appropriate from a list like "unpithy", "unoriginal", "unlikely", "by apparent unnotable", etc. This (A) avoids the possibly unnecessary implication of vandalism, (B) tells serious editors what the deficiency is in legitimate quotes; and (C) clearly and repeatedly informs editors that the best way to have a quote taken seriously is to include a reliable source, which we just cannot emphasize enough. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:25, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Good point. I admit it wasn't necessary to be rollbacked: How do you think to begin a campaign about this issue, say,
  1. "Use the undo button instead of rollback, unless it is obvious vandalism, and give a reason as possible as we can."
  2. "Bug a request to bugzilla, giving a reason to rollback."
The second may take a time (and there is a risk which won't be realized) but the first one can be done immediately. --Aphaia 01:36, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to delay a response, Aphaia. I'm afraid that I've been so minimally involved in Wikiquote (by my standards) that literally 90% of what I would ordinary follow-up on, I leave to others to pursue. (Hardly a day goes by that I don't write a few paragraphs that I ultimately delete instead of saving because I don't feel I have the time to respond to subsequent responses like yours above.)
In general, I support most campaigns to improve our processes. But unless and until I can allocate more time to helping to make them happen, I will probably leave them to everyone else to pursue. On this issue, all I will say for now is that I find my usual method quick and easy:
  1. Edit the previous version.
  2. Add a 3- to 5-word edit summary as I described above.
  3. Save.
This takes me less time that it does to carefully append the same information to the ridiculously crowded edit summary auto-generated by "undo". Frankly, I find a terse reason for reverting an edit far more important than "Undo revision 123456 by Some User (Talk)". I applaud the developers' attempt to provide auxiliary information in these summaries, but reversions should explain themselves, first and foremost, with as much good faith as can be assumed. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:41, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] C (talk · contributions)

I blocked user:C indefinitely. While some - very few - of his or her edits are useful (rather say "unproblematic" - but not productive anyway), the most part of edits coming from this account were going to Sandbox, his or her user page or user subpages. I think it rather disruptive - Wikiquote is not a testwiki and principally its resource sustained by donation shouldn't be wasted in such a way imo. --Aphaia 13:56, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I endorse that block, you are corect that Wikiquote is not a testwiki and I do not see him contributing much constructively. Cbrown1023 talk 22:17, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spambot

My user talk page keeps getting hit by a spambot, it keeps creating User talk:SunStar Net/w/index.php repeatedly. Please can someone please block the offending IP addresses?? Thanks, --SunStar Net 12:14, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citing speedy deletion cases

Now that our admin staff is growing significantly, with a great diversity of experience and opinions, I think it's even more important for us to be careful about following policies. One area that troubles me is doing speedy-deletions without citing specific cases in the edit summaries. While this may seem like unnecessary formality to some, I would argue that it has four major benefits:

  1. It informs the community of what official policy was invoked.
  2. It requires that admins think carefully each time to match the action to one or more SD cases, rather than just make an arguable judgment call.
  3. It encourages admins to periodically refresh their awareness of the details of Wikiquote:Speedy deletion, which changes occasionally.
  4. It exposes weaknesses in the current policy that can lead to improving it.

This is just my opinion, of course, but I would like to suggest that we all try to mark our SDs with edit summaries prefaced by info like "SD: unremarkable subject" or at least "SD: A4" to help the community in this way. Thank you for considering this. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Persuasive argument! Sorry if I did that recently... Also I would like you to give your opinion to Wikiquote talk:Proposed deletion#General review. Prod and SD are somehow relevant I think. --Aphaia 04:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I'll offer a different view. The requirement to discover esoteric formal reasons for deletion is a reason why I will not be deleting much on en wp.
I actually see the situation rather differently. If I leave the default message members of the community can actually see at some of what the content was rather than solely administrators being able to access that information.
The only time I conceal the information from the community at large is if it contains personal information or advertising (to prevent the intended outcome of publicising the information) or if it is offensive (common good taste).
Solely my thoughts --Herby talk thyme 08:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
One need not conceal anything. A prefix of "SD:A4: " would take only 7 characters to make clear why the article was speedy-deleted, and the loss of 7 characters of the content following "was: " is unlikely to lessen any insight. I must admit that I usually prefer to spell out the case (as I don't like tossing about acronyms when doing stuff that editors might object to), but Herby's point makes a good case for brevity in the prefix. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Sometimes I agree with Herby. This is one of those times. SD:A4 means precious little to most people. Poetlister 22:33, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm of a mind that in deleted obvious nonsense, the deleted text speaks for itself. BD2412 T 23:41, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
There used to be a distaste for quoting speedy deletion reasons by their code as is done on Wikipedia; we generally prefer to write it out "No quotes" or "Non-notable subject". Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 00:06, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
[Edit conflict] "SD:A4 means precious little to most people". Yes, but it means more than no statement at all. As I said, I prefer to be clearer, but Herby's point about the default edit summary is important, too. Unfortunately, we can't be too verbose with either one, let alone both, and SDs leave no discussion to be referenced. Consider the last 6 SDs as I write this, all done by InvisibleSun:
  1. Jari Sillanpää — SD: A1. Content was: '<nowiki>{{db|no quotes}} Jari Sillanpää is a well-known Finnish performing artist. His career began in the Seinäjoki Tango Festival in 1994. He has released eight albums and recorded over 100 songs.'</nowiki>
  2. Southport england — SD: A1. No quote. Content was: ' == Southport, England == Location: Southport is located in northwest England. It is northwest of Manchester. His...' (and the only contributor was '170.211.100.125')
  3. Mason Clarke — SD: A4. Unnotable subject. Content was: 'Mason Clarke is the greatest person to ever walk the face of the earth. include the following: *"My name is......' (and the only contributor was '204.185.110.227')
  4. Football factory — SD: A1. Content was: 'come on then' (and the only contributor was '194.80.183.1')
  5. Fatty — SD: A1. Content was: 'wikiquote is a good place to learn exspecially' (and the only contributor was '169.139.1.20')
  6. Anthem — SD: A3. Attack. Content was: 'Loser' (and the only contributor was '70.150.174.3')
(Sorry to pick on you, InvisibleSun — I really appreciate the explicit cases — but your examples just happened to be the most recent.) The default edit summaries of #4, #5, and #6 suggest the worthlessness of the articles, so explicit cases don't add much to the community's understanding. But #2 included a lead section that was too long to indicate its deficiencies, and #3, while indicative of a vanity quoter's hyperbole, could have just been an overenthusiastic fan who nevertheless provided quotes beyond the content excerpt, making its SDing not obvious solely from its default summary. The cases assure the community that there was a specific policy-based reason for the loss of the article they can no longer examine.
And #1 is one of the problems I'm worried about (thus my last three reasons for citing the cases). We don't have a "no quotes" SD case. Our "no content" allows no-quote articles with reasonable intros more consideration than summary deletion, and in fact was the inspiration for our new Wikiquote:Proposed deletion (see WQt:SD#Addition of "no quotes" clause). Yet I see this kind of article SD'd with some regularity. (I think of this as a "Minotaur" case, where Kalki long ago convinced me that we should give reasonable subjects a chance to attract quotes. It was eventually VfD'd, but it got its chance.)
It's all too easy to delete something like a quoteless "Jari Sillanpää" or a vanity-like "Mason Clarke" just because we haven't heard of the subject. The famous but old musical Anything Goes almost got axed after a 14-day VfD in 2005 because no VfDer but I had heard of or remembered it, and I almost missed the discussion. Had we had today's WQ:SD policies and practices, it might have been SD'd (A4: unremarkable subject) with a default edit summary something like this:
Content was: '"It's bad enough being a minister."' (and the only contributor was '71.32.67.9')
That is, assuming the deleting admin even considered which case to use. S/he might have just thought, not unreasonably but still incorrectly, that the not-especially-interesting sole quote and the unfamiliar title made it look like some kind of vanity work and SD'd it without doing some research. It might not seem like much of a loss, but I really think we should try not to do express-lane violence to people's contributions without a compelling (and possibly explicit) justification, however terse.
Anyway, I don't think there's necessarily a single "right" thing to do for all edit summaries. I'm just pointing out the advantages of what I'm suggesting, which won't always be needed but shouldn't hurt, and can encourage us to be more careful about deleting apparent junk that may actually have some promise. (And sorry about the impromptu essay. ☺) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
  • One difficulty in making speedy deletions is that if the article being deleted is of a certain length, it will already have used up all of the space allowable in the edit summary. The only way to get around this is to delete a portion of the article. This leads to the temptation to make the edit summary as short as possible (as with "SD: A4. Unnotable") in order to allow more of the article to be seen.

    I admit I'm still getting the hang of using Prod rather than SD as a means of dealing with unpromising articles, in part because it seems at times to conflict with our current policies. I had, for example, checked Jari Sillanpää and Southport england and found them notable per Wikipedia; but they were written so as to be covered, to my mind, by our rule of Wikiquote is not an encyclopedia. The articles were somewhere between definitions and abbreviated encyclopedia entries and therefore seemed fit for deletion. Does our Prod policy now state, in so many words, "Wikiquote is not an encyclopedia — unless, that is, someone else comes along and completely transforms your encyclopedic entry into a suitable Wikiquote page"?

    You had mentioned, Jeff, that "It's all too easy to delete something like a quoteless 'Jari Sillanpää' or a vanity-like 'Mason Clarke' just because we haven't heard of the subject." Well, yes, it is easy to eliminate an article like Mason Clarke because of our own Speedy Deletion rule A4: "Unremarkable subject. An article about a real person, group of people, band, or club that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject." Before speedily deleting an article, I always check Wikipedia and/or Google. If I find, as with Mason Clarke, that there is no indication of notability, then I delete the page for the reason summarized in SD:A4. Do I take it that Prod now makes this obsolete? If so, we must eliminate A4 as a Speedy Deletion reason. The Mason Clarke page was the sort of page of which we get at least half a dozen a day: an arch, snarky, inside-joke about someone who is all too well known to the page's creator. Since these pages almost always claim the excellence, if not the positively cosmic greatness of individuals, does this mean they represent something which makes a claim to "the importance or significance of its subject" and therefore should be given a Prod rather than an SD? This doesn't seem to be what you had meant, and yet I don't know how else to interpret it.

    Based on the above discussion, I have now restored the pages for Jari Sillanpää, Southport england and Casey calvert, placing Prod tags on all of them, while Mason Clarke remains unexhumed. - InvisibleSun 03:15, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Officially we don't have prod after its trail finished *tsk tsk*. Your review of incidents in the trial period and participation to its finalization/officialization will be appreciated :) --Aphaia
Okay, I think I've really crossed over the line with my "helpful" advice at this point. I am forced to consider that if I have enough time to write an essay about the wonders of "better" documentation of frequent actions, I might better serve the community by actually doing the actions and taking the pressure off the folks who are doing this stuff far more often than I am, and who can better appreciate the scope of work involved. I think I need to spend more time getting my hands dirty instead of trying to direct the most effective gardeners.
I apologize for being so heavy-handed. I hope I haven't scared folks off of doing speedy deletions. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:28, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I have to say I will avoid them here as I do on en wp. I'm a simple soul - if it's junk get rid of it, if not, leave it alone. But that is just me --Herby