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Latest comment: 1 month ago by 2601:280:CB00:877E:3AC5:A58:85E4:9B7A in topic Point of view

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Faith page.

Quotes moved here from the article (2024)

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The general rule is, that Truth should never be violated, because it is of the utmost importance to the comfort of life, that we should have a full security by mutual faith; and occasional inconveniences should be willingly suffered that we may preserve it. ~ James Boswell
  • We talked of the casuistical question, Whether it was allowable at any time to depart from Truth? JOHNSON. 'The general rule is, that Truth should never be violated, because it is of the utmost importance to the comfort of life, that we should have a full security by mutual faith; and occasional inconveniences should be willingly suffered that we may preserve it. There must, however, be some exceptions. If, for instance, a murderer should ask you which way a man is gone, you may tell him what is not true, because you are under a previous obligation not to betray a man to a murderer.' BOSWELL. 'Supposing the person who wrote Junius were asked whether he was the authour, might he deny it?' JOHNSON. 'I don't know what to say to this. If you were sure that he wrote Junius, would you, if he denied it, think as well of him afterwards? Yet it may be urged, that what a man has no right to ask, you may refuse to communicate; and there is no other effectual mode of preserving a secret and an important secret, the discovery of which may be very hurtful to you, but a flat denial; for if you are silent, or hesitate, or evade, it will be held equivalent to a confession. But stay, Sir; here is another case. Supposing the authour had told me confidentially that he had written Junius, and I were asked if he had, I should hold myself at liberty to deny it, as being under a previous promise, express or implied, to conceal it. Now what I ought to do for the authour, may I not do for myself? But I deny the lawfulness of telling a lie to a sick man for fear of alarming him. You have no business with consequences; you are to tell the truth. Besides, you are not sure what effect your telling him that he is in danger may have. It may bring his distemper to a crisis, and that may cure him. Of all lying, I have the greatest abhorrence of this, because I believe it has been frequently practised on myself.'
    I cannot help thinking that there is much weight in the opinion of those who have held, that Truth, as an eternal and immutable principle, ought, upon no account whatever, to be violated, from supposed previous or superiour obligations, of which every man being to judge for himself, there is great danger that we too often, from partial motives, persuade ourselves that they exist; and probably whatever extraordinary instances may sometimes occur, where some evil may be prevented by violating this noble principle, it would be found that human happiness would, upon the whole, be more perfect were Truth universally preserved.

Quotes were moved here from the page (2005)

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Latest comment: 19 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

The following quotes were moved here from the page because the source has no apparent notability. If he is notable, please create a wp page, a wq page or add evidence of notability here. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 07:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

  • "Faith is relational: to think of self, others, and God, to be committed to something or someone; one's heart, love, and hope is invested." -James Fowler
  • Faith is 'don't let those pesky facts get in the way of our political plan or our mystically ordained path to heaven'; faith is 'do what I tell you because I said so'. All things that can't be disproved need faith, utopia needs faith, idealism needs faith, spiritual salvation needs faith. Fuck faith. -Freydis
  • Of course, say the true believers, religion rests on faith, not intellect. But if all you need to do to prove I am wrong is to have faith that you are right, then no discussion is possible... It is only by resort to what the Roman statesman Cicero called 'right reason' that men and women can interact with each other amicably in a civilized society. -Philip D. Harvey
  • Getting facts right is a fundamental requirement of morality. - Peter W. Huber

Does anyone know who said this?

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"When you try to prove your faith, all you prove is that you have none."

Unsourced

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  • A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
  • Faith is an oasis of the heart which will never be reached by the caravan of thinking.
  • Faith.Isn't that just another word for Ignorance? I've never understood how People can be so proud of believing in Something they have absolutely no proof of.
    • Dr.Gregory House, in House
  • A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass; he is actually ill. Worse, he is incurable.
  • A reasonable scale of probability--what is likely--forbids believing a whole range of imaginative possibilities, even though we do not know anything for sure.
  • Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.
  • Every religion, as far as reason will help them, makes use of it gladly - and where it fails them, they cry out: It is a matter of faith, and above reason!
  • Faith is a wondrous thing; it is not only capable of moving mountains, but also of making you believe that a herring is a race horse.
  • By faith is meant, first, conscious knowledge and second, the practice of good deeds.
  • Faith is essentially intolerant ... essentially because necessarily bound up with faith is the illusion that one's cause is also God's cause.
  • Faith means not wanting to know what is true.
  • I don't travel in circles where people say, "I have faith, I believe this in my heart and nothing you can say or do can shake my faith." That's just a long-winded religious way to say, "shut up."
  • I have more faith in my plumber than I do the eternal being. Plumbers do a good job. They keep the shit flowing.
  • If you have a faith, it is statistically overwhelmingly likely that it is the same faith as your parents and grandparents had. No doubt soaring cathedrals, stirring music, moving stories and parables, help a bit. But by far the most important variable determining your religion is the accident of birth. The convictions that you so passionately believe would have been a completely different and largely contradictory set of convictions, if only you had happened to be born in a different place. Epidemiology, not evidence.
  • Men become civilized, not in proportion to their willingness to believe, but in proportion to their readiness to doubt.
  • Not knowing is much more interesting than believing an answer which might be wrong.
  • Skepticism and doubt lead to study and investigation, and investigation is the beginning of wisdom.
  • Skepticism is the highest of duties, and blind faith the one unpardonable sin.
  • The alleged short-cut to knowledge, which is faith, is only a short-circuit destroying the mind.


  • The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry.
  • The most pernicious of absurdities is that weak, blind, stupid faith is better than the constant practice of every human virtue.
  • The old faiths light their candles all about, but burly Truth comes by and puts them out.
  • To those searching for truth -- not the truth of dogma and darkness but the truth brought by reason, search, examination, and inquiry, discipline is required. For faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction -- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope.
  • We are a people of faith. We have been so secure in that faith that we have enshrined in our constitution protection for people who profess no faith. And good for us for doing so. That is what the First Amendment is all about.
  • What with blowing up clinics, shooting doctors, and the endless terrorists blowing themselves up hither and yon, the truth regarding the cause of the violence is not addressed by anyone at all: Blind faith in interactive Deities.
  • You, the religious believer, may well find subtle support for your faith in recent discoveries - that is, if you're willing to upgrade your metaphors and definitions as the latest data demand; and seek out new niches of ignorance or ambiguity to fill with the goose down of faith.
  • Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for the lost faith in ourselves.
  • Ignorance is lack of knowledge, whereas faith is rejection of it.
  • Of all the human virtues... all the supposed virtues, faith would be the most harmful.
  • Faith indeed tells what the senses do not tell, but not the contrary of what they see. It is above them and not contrary to them.
  • Faith is different from proof; the latter is human, the former is a Gift from God.
  • Belief is a wise wager. Granted that faith cannot be proved, what harm will come to you if you gamble on its truth and it proves false? If you gain, you gain all; if you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation, that He exists.
  • It is the heart which perceives God and not the reason. That is what faith is: God perceived by the heart, not by the reason.

Point of view

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Latest comment: 1 month ago7 comments4 people in discussion

The recent reorganization of this article based on points of view that are For or Against is probably not a good idea. Note in particular that some quotes about the subject are neither for nor against. ~ Ningauble (talk) 13:32, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

I agree with that assessment — I generally dislike creating such presumptive categories on any pages, and have usually accepted them as necessary ONLY when that seems to be the preferred solutions to those most intensely engaged in some long term animosities. I have never found it all that good a solution on ANY page and find categories "for" and "against" so broad a thing as "faith" a rather ridiculous form of faith AND faithlessness of the chance of anyone seeing BEYOND such shallow designations. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 14:22, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
I attempted to simply strip out the categories in a way that reverted the division of the page, but there seem to have been quotes removed in that edit, and now I am beginning a more meticulous response where I restore anything that I inadvertently removed. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 14:31, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
I just worked on and off on this for several hours — but just realized I had not yet restored all the quotes which were lost in my initial edit back to an alphabetized listing — I will get back to these later, within the next day or so. I must be leaving now. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 22:36, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
Great job. For the first time in five years the clean up tag can be removed. I am not sure what quotes you lost in the process, but good luck with that. -- Mdd (talk) 23:24, 28 March 2013 (UTC)Reply
Thanks. I had meant to work on this a few times previously, but had been too busy. I reviewed what I had thought I had missed, and found I was mistaken in that — it was simply a few that I hadn't read while I was working on the page, because they were in sections I hadn't needed to move. It does look like I did get everything. ~ ♞☤☮♌Kalki·†·⚓⊙☳☶⚡ 06:49, 29 March 2013 (UTC)Reply

∞¿„” 2601:280:CB00:877E:3AC5:A58:85E4:9B7A 14:41, 28 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

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