User talk:P3Y229

From Wikiquote
Jump to: navigation, search

Hi, welcome to English Wikiquote.

Enjoy! BD2412 T 22:46, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Sockpuppet question[edit]

Very glad to hear that I was mistaken, and apologies for raising the questions. The editing practices (including close attention to images) struck me as similar to those of another editor, and sometimes seemed to include the restoration of images added by another editor. Of course these are things that anyone could do. The other editor has an acknowledged history of sock puppetry, so the question seemed to be one worth raising. Macspaunday (talk) 19:58, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Robert Frost[edit]

Quotes from The Figure a Poem Makes are already on the Robert Frost page, in another section. Can you take a look and try to combine the two and then remove one of them? Thanks ~ UDScott (talk) 19:49, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Never mind! It appears you already addressed it. Thanks! ~ UDScott (talk) 19:50, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Please, don't use bolding[edit]

It's so annoying and arbitrary due to its choice usage randomly.

Thanks!

-- Cirt (talk) 04:54, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the bolding at the freedom of speech site. It just copied the quote from Voltairine de Cleyre site without noticing that there is no bold passage on the freedom of speech site. That's why I didn't undo the bolding. But thanks to your unbolding. --P3Y229 (talk) 14:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I just now noticed this note, as I was about to thank you a bit more for your extensive work here. In response to this, I must assert: Please do not feel obliged to automatically obey or defer to anyone without clear need to do so. Be especially wary of those who with extreme hypocrisy often seek to curtail the options and freedoms of others to exalt that which is good in Humanity, and through various forms of insincerity and dishonesty, dividing people's forms of confidence, and uniting them only in hatreds and fears, leave little more than such freedoms as the most brutal, malicious and cravenly deceitful find comforting and empowering — the ability to intimidate, constrain and control others to conform to their own will, rather than to such forms of conscience as are eternally superior — and ever eventually are proven to be so, time after time, throughout all the ages.
I know that it is an often tedious, boring, contentious and discouraging thing, but I would recommend observing a bit more about some of issues that develop in the formations of free wikis and free associations or free societies in general, and their corruptions by those who often seek to constrain, control and eliminate the rights and options of others, through various overt, covert, subtle or obvious means.
I now get back to what I originally intended, and thank you for all your work, and extend to you my Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 14:41, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
I just realized I hadn't sufficiently addressed the specific issue brought up here, and will merely state that bolding IS an option for editors here to use, and has been since the earliest days of the wiki in 2003 — and some of us are well aware of the NEED to actively protect that option and freedom of expression, against the relative few who would seek to remove it. ~ Kalki·· 14:44, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for your enlightening and motivating words. I'm always amazed by the deepness and wisdom of your words. Blessings upon you! Live long and in peace!!!

Friends[edit]

Hi! I enjoy the work on friendship you have done, and will most likely give the pictured quotes much thought the next time I try to acquire a friend. However I don't understand these quotes. Maybe you could explain them for me?
It is a maxim of old that among themselves all things are common to friends.
When people are friends, they have no need of justice, but when they are just, they need friendship in addition.
The highest compact we can make with our fellow is, — Let there be truth between us two forevermore.
I get by with a little help from my friends. (I guess it means sharing our sorrows to and looking forward to meeting our friends gives happiness.)--Spannerjam (talk) 16:38, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

It is a maxim of old that among themselves all things are common to friends.

While friends are individuals who are not exactly the same as their fellow human beings, they share things: Be it that they believe in the same thing, like the same thing or do the same things. In this way ‘all things are common to friends.’

When people are friends, they have no need of justice, but when they are just, they need friendship in addition.

I have no idea what’s the meaning of this sentence. I can only speculate, but I think justice means equality in this case. When people want to be just they have to treat their fellow humans beings not as superior or inferior beings but as equals. And that’s want friends do. When people are friends they tend to treat each other equally i.e. they are beings who are neither superior nor inferior to each other, but treat each other equally.

The highest compact we can make with our fellow is, — Let there be truth between us two forevermore.

The more we lie to our friends and our friends know the it, the more erodes the friendship. The only solid foundation for a lasting friendship is always to be honest to each other i.e. to tell the each other the truth no matter how painful the truth is.

I get by with a little help from my friends.

In times of sorrow and stress friends are helpers who help each other to get through these difficult times by uplifting each other.

That's my interpretation of the above sentences. I hope my interpretations helped you (at least) a little bit to comprehend the meaning of the above sentences. --P3Y229 (talk) 20:59, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Perfect explanations. --Spannerjam (talk) 21:14, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
What do you think of this interpretation of the quote "When people are friends, they have no need of justice, but when they are just, they need friendship in addition.": When we are just we often tell a bitter truth. If we want to be taken serious in our criticism we may have to set a good example (i.e being nice as in friendship). When people are friends (agree in matters) and are not supicious of each other there is little need for formal rules.--Spannerjam (talk) 16:13, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
Your interpretation is a good one I agree with. You have good thoughts , but I think it has to expanded. I will therefore rephrase your thoughts in this way to complete the picture: When we are just, we have to tell the truth. That maybe at first bitter and painful, but in the long run it’s healthy and the solid foundation for a friendship based on mutual trust, respect and tolerance. If we want to be taken serious in our criticism we may have lead by example. This means not only to extend a hand in hard times, be honest and take responsibility, but first and foremost to treat each other always as equal beings that deserve tolerance and respect. When people are friends and are not suspicious of each other, they may disagree sometimes, but trust each other when it comes to the crunch. And how does one become and stay friends? One becomes and stays friends by following an eternal truth: A prudent mind, a caring soul and an open heart are the ingredients to resolve the conflicts of the past, to overcome the perils of the present and to lay the foundations for a common future.

⨀⚡∴☥☮∵ Thank you. Eternal glories are in the colors of Life...[edit]

Barnstar-life.png
Life, like a dome of many-coloured glass,
Stains the white radiance of eternity. ~ Percy Bysshe Shelley
Aigen Kirche - Fenster 5 Gloria.jpg

I had noticed your edit to the Life page, and immediately gave you private thanks for it, and had not even yet looked at your edits to Time, and simple yet significant emphasis added within Eternity, all of which are very pleasing to me in various ways, when I resolved to give you a more public thank you, for your extensive work here, because that quote about life, in conjunction with such images as were added with it, have actually been VERY significant to me since I was about 5 years old, if not even earlier, and this remains one of my favorite lines by Shelley to this day, though there are many others as well. I really cannot convey how much this line means to me and has long meant, but I do hope that, some of what it means to MANY will become apparent to many others in the coming years. Thank you, very much for all your recent activities here, and may you continue to find this worthy project one worth working on. So it goes Blessings. ~ Kalki·· 07:04, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Sahasrara.svg

Thanks very much[edit]

Thank you for your continued contributions to the page, Freedom of speech, most appreciated, -- Cirt (talk) 17:12, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Virgil[edit]

Well, I suppose it's no use reverting your edits. I commented out a few pictures, but you added them again, and even added new ones. You added, as a picture, "It may be that in the future you will be helped by remembering the past." But, there already was a picture highlighting this quote, Conington's translation "This suffering will yield us yet / A pleasant tale to tell." You're adding a new picture of a quote already pictured, and the version you choose to highlight is not a notable translation at all!

I added the picture with the text "it may be that in the future you will be helped by remembering the past" because its translator Tom Jenkins called the line forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit as quote "Vergil's arguably most famous line", whose translation quote "may be familiar to modern readers as the dedication to innumerable high school yearbooks." I moved Corrington picture quote to his wikiquote page in order to accommodate you. I hope that by preserving the boldfaced version of Corrington's translation and the addition of Jenkins translation as a picture a balance can be established which helps, to use your words, "to adequately and effectively [...] highlight [...] remarkable passages." --P3Y229 (talk) 01:52, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Re Sibyl, you again boldfaced a huge chunk of text, and added two new pictures, all of the same passage, which gives it undue weight. I much preferred the previous version, where only two pictures were used (and even then, they were probably too much, that passage is relatively unremarkable compared to others).

I heartly disagree with your assesment. The boldfaces passage seems to me important for the overall content of Virgil's Aeneid, since Sybil gives Aeneid advice what he must do and avoid in order to reach "happy shores" for "The fierce Italian people" and their aim to reestablish "the Trojan state." That's why I added the pictures and boldfaced the passage. In order to accommodate you I shortened the text in one of the pictures, to use again your words, "to adequately and effectively [...] highlight [...] remarkable passages." --P3Y229 (talk) 02:15, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Just because you like a quote, that doesn't mean you have to place pictures next to it reproducing all the lines, or boldface the entire text. I like all quotes by Virgil. But any page of the Aeneid must be so long, that pictures have to be used sparingly, as with boldface, so as to adequately and effectively only highlight the most remarkable passages. (Of course, if the goal is to turn Virgil into another one of those articles with huge running walls of pictures, that never end, then I must oppose it.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 00:22, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

I admit that I boldfaced lines between "Think it not loss of time a while to stay," and "And raise, by strength of arms, the Trojan state." to highlight a passage I like very much. However I added the pictures relating to this passage in order to highlight an important passage for the overall content of Virgil's Aeneid. I also added the pictures, because many people can remember text passages better by a coombination of picture and text. --P3Y229 (talk) 02:15, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, but... You must understand, "Vergil's arguably most famous line" is the Latin forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit, of which there are hundreds of English translations, mostly bad and unpoetic, as is the case of "It may be that in the future you will be helped by remembering the past." How is this translation, by Tom Jenkins, (whom neither I, nor anyone reading this, has ever heard of,) which only appears in an obscure footnote, in any way more notable than Conington's cited above? Dryden's translation, "An hour will come, with pleasure to relate / Your sorrows past, as benefits of Fate." is also a thousand times superior to it. But, you've removed Conington's rendering of the passage, and instead placed a picture for Jenkins' translation. Why? ~ DanielTom (talk) 10:23, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

According to Jenkin his translation of forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit quote "may be familiar to modern readers as the dedication to innumerable high school yearbooks." Because of this assumed that Jenkin's translation is in widespred use. I moved Corrington picture quote to his wikiquote page in order to accommodate you. By preserving the boldfaced version of Corrington's translation and the addition of Jenkins translation as a picture I hope a balance can be established between the translations of Corrington and Jenkin which help, to use your words, "to adequately and effectively [...] highlight [...] remarkable passages." --P3Y229 (talk) 10:48, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
No, that is completely incorrect: Jenkins was referring to the original in Latin, which is very well known, not to his own unremarkable translation. ~ DanielTom (talk) 11:11, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
I apologise for making an false assumption. Because of your statement I readded Conington's translation with the latin original. I also moved the picture with Jenkin's translation to make more space between the pictures. --P3Y229 (talk) 14:08, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
That's okay. Sorry for insisting, but why do you want to keep a picture for that translation in particular? To me it is uninteresting... Conington's translation is much more widely quoted, gives 46 Google Books hits, and appears in established Dictionaries of Quotations (Dictionary of Quotations (classical) and Classical and Foreign Quotations &c.). Jenkins' translation, on the other hand, only has 1 Google Books hit. I would also be inclined to remove that picture because I don't like having two for the same quote. ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:16, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
The answer is a little bit complicated, but I hope you will understand it. Due to certain events in my life I know that life can end at any moment. This has left an profound impact in my life. I have become more time sensitive. And it reinforced my belief that past, present and future are connected. That's why I like quotes which link past, present and/or future together (cf. Robert G. Ingersoll statement: The present is the necessary product of all the past, the necessary cause of all the future.) and also the reason I want to keep that particular picture. In addition I want to keep the picture because I think the past can help one to deal with future difficulties and that picture is a reminder of it. --P3Y229 (talk) 16:08, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Again, I'm not trying to invalidate the meaning this quote has to you. We know that, like the Bible, people often turned to the Aeneid for wisdom and consolation in times of uncertainty. The context of this quote you like so much, is the terrible storm at sea in the first book, where many lose their lives as ships sink. Those uplifting words are said by Aeneas, to his surviving companions, after the storm. But this in no way relates to the picture you've chosen, which is of Sibyl, a character that only appears in the sixth book. I say this so you understand why to me seeing that quote out of place, and with a picture unrelated to it, still seems wrong and confusing. ~ DanielTom (talk) 17:12, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
It may be that in the future you will be helped by remembering the past.
I can't follow you. Can you please link the picture you mean? --P3Y229 (talk) 18:37, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes, I was referring to the picture you added (right). ~ DanielTom (talk) 18:42, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for clarifing. Now I can answer your question more proplerly, but first I must admit that you are more experienced in Virgil's Aeneid than me. That being said I repeat an earlier state to explain the choosing of this picture. According to Jenkin his translation of forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit quote "may be familiar to modern readers as the dedication to innumerable high school yearbooks." Because of this assumed that Jenkin's translation is in widespred use. The keywords are high school yearbooks. Because I assumed Jenkin's translation of forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit is in widespread use, and that's the key, in high school yearbooks, it was natural for me to search for an book related picture. And after finding the Vergilius Vaticanus, I took the right pictured quote to connect the, in my understanding, widespread used words It may be that in the future you will be helped by remembering the past. with an Aeneid related yearbook i.e. an ancient book/manuscript like the Vergilius Vaticanus.
After finding this wikicommons category page, I changed the picture to connect the storm you mentioned with an Aeneid related yearbook i.e. an ancient book/manuscript like the Vergilius Vaticanus. I hope the picture is better. --P3Y229 (talk) 20:47, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Okay, thank you. Yes, much better – I like the new picture you added of the winds, and used it instead of the other representation of the storm. I replaced Conington's rendering with the translation you prefer (to avoid repetition), in its proper place (next to the quote), but under a different picture. Please see if it looks acceptable to you. ~ DanielTom (talk) 21:19, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
I changed the picture you chose with one that shows Virgil holding The Aeneid. I like this picture more than yours. Due to the combination of Virgil and his work is a connection between past and future i.e. it is a message from the past (Virgil) to give future generations guidance which they can find in the past (in The Aeneid). And that's it in my eyes. The issues regarding Virgil have been in my eyes resolved in a constructive way which by the way also enlightened me. So thank you very much the knowledge you shared with me and for patience in dealing with me! Wishing You Well!!! --P3Y229 (talk) 21:48, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, looks good. (By the way, this episode of the storm is right at the start of the first book. Even for those who don't know Latin, i.e. most of us, there are many good translations of the Aeneid. Dryden's, arguably the best in English, is available at Wikisource. My favorite one is from 1664, by João Franco Barreto, into Portuguese. You may want to search for translations of the Aeneid into your own native language, and be surprised by its many beauties.) Cheers, DanielTom (talk) 22:04, 8 April 2014 (UTC)