User talk:Namesnik

Welcome

Hello, Namesnik, and welcome to the English Wikiquote, a free compendium of quotations written collaboratively by people just like you!

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To ask for advice or assistance feel free to drop by the Village Pump or ask on my talk page. Happy editing! And again, welcome! -- Mdd (talk) 13:58, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Yuri Khanon

Hi, on Wikiquote we don't use separate reference sections, and such complex lay out on the bottom of the article. Please just restore and continue in the lay out showed here. -- Mdd (talk) 14:00, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

thank you very much, I just don't have time! Namesnik (talk) 14:07, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

For now I added a cleanup tag, but I am considering more action: Wikiquote articles get rarely translated from one language to another. Especially if the person has hardly any impact on that other language, this is reason for a deletion request. -- Mdd (talk) 14:27, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Understand. Sorry that didn't read Your message immediately. But I think not so cruel Namesnik (talk) 14:30, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

This is a matter of drawing a clear line. There is already a Russian Wikiquote article, and I have no reason to doubt he is notable and quotable in Russian. But I did make a (short) check, whether or not he has had some impact on English literature. Hereby Google books and Google scholar gave no indication in this direction. Also (most of) the quotes about Yuri Khanon seem to be directly translated, and didn't originate from English sources. I do know it is not Wikiquotes intention to simply translate article between Wikiquotes, such as happens on Wikipedia.

Now if you have some prove, he did have some impact, please explain, and we can reconsider how to proceed here. Simply continuing translating more of the Russian Wikiquote article is no solution. -- Mdd (talk) 14:58, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Yuri Khanon

I have added a "{{prod}}" template to the article Yuri Khanon, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but it may not satisfy Wikiquote's criteria for inclusion, for the reasons given in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikiquote is not" and Wikiquote's deletion policy).

You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Votes for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Mdd (talk) 14:32, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I understood everything and removed himself. Thank You for the wonderful reception. No, I will not participate in the discussion. I know when I want to delete is then removed. "Dura lex", isn't it? Namesnik (talk) 15:00, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Ok thank you. I did some further internet searches and did find his name and work mention in some American newspapars: For example in the New York Times (2006), the New York Post (2006), and the Dance View Times (2006), the last for example mentioning:

"The music by Yuri Khanon, a Russian composer who is a contemporary of Ratmansky, was muted and quietly hypnotic, emphasizing piano and percussion. The choreography kept closely to its repetitive rhythms, but also found room for freedom and invention within the confined limitations. Kowrowski, in a short maroon tunic, sculpted her long, expressive legs through the twists and angles with witty elegance. Evans, in dark pants and tight top, added his solid, supportive presence and was her match in sustaining an element of surprise and wit. He broke free to move out to the space upstage before returning to their assigned space as both collapsed to the floor in the final moments, remaining immobile there as the stage darkened."

If there are more of those quotes, and especially any public performance in an interview with an English or American newspaper, than the minimum requirements might be full filled. -- Mdd (talk) 16:19, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

• I sincerely thank You. Yuri does not give interviews. He hermetic people. But the article (which was removed) were quotes from the press. This annotation to the disk (London 1992) two quotes from the dictionary grove, a quote from the press conference Sokurov, quote from the book Pak Noja (Seoul). If you want, I can repeat. Forgive my English. I really wanted to make Yuri pleasant. He closed people. Here below quotations, about which I said. Namesnik (talk) 11:02, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• "Five Smallest orgasms, oc.29 (1986) were written as a direct response to Scriabin’s Poem of Ecstasy. A “Certain Concerto” for piano & orchestra, oc.31 (1987) was written in the genre of “false concerto”, concerto/deception, where the listener is constantly deceived, having his/her expectations crowned with emptiness. The theme of deception is one of the main features of Khanin’s creations. “Middle Symphony”, oc.40 (1990), with a text by the composer, is a large, quite extraordinary work with a rather unnatural and affected structure. It ends with a canon in which the three singers sing the same text backwards for 81 bars. The text is very abstruse, in fact almost absurd; it becomes necessary to overturn one’s impression of the whole symphony just listened to… Does this discussion exhaust the subject of this disc? I don’t know – I doubt it".
  • Annotation for Khanon’s CD

• ...Yuri Khanin, a young composer, this year a graduate of the Leningrad Conservatory managed to do everything about the orchestration, arrangement and choice of instruments in a very precise way. It was done with an ideal exactitude. Never before had I worked with composers so much, and I was really struck by his understanding. <…> I think that sound, no less than the image, should produce not only emotional impact, but is to have an altogether independent semantic meaning. The spirituality of the film as if finds its expression through the sound. And spirituality would not emerge by itself. If you might sometimes fail to keep alive the memory of a visual image in your mind and in your heart the soul would never forget sounds…
  • Alexander Sokurov from press-conference on September 26, 1988)

• Although Khanon calls Satie and Skryabin his teachers, it is not the music of these composers that attracts him but their tendency to link – some would say subordinate – their music to an idea. According to Khanon, a composer is an ideologist with regard to his musical material. Elements of play (both semantic and phonetic), paradox, the absurd and nonsense (word inversion and invention, pseudo-quotation and limerick) all lend Khanon's aesthetic a desire to outrage the listener. He has not followed a single contemporary strain of composition and has founded two trends: ‘extreme music’ in 1988 and ‘average music’ in 1990.
  • Lyudmila Kovnatskaya «Grove’s musical Dictionary»

• Khanons literary works are numerous and as original in form as his music: «Skryabin as a Person» is written in the style of a memoir with actual events of the composer's biography interspersed with stylized fictitious narrative. 2124 copies of the book were published by a publisher called «The Centre for Average Music» at the author's expense; in appearance, the volume resembles a 19th-century exclusive edition. Khanon has one of the largest collections in Russia of Mexican palms and South African stapelias.
  • Lyudmila Kovnatskaya: «Grove’s musical Dictionary»

References

Hi Namesnik, these five above quotes originate from the English Wikipedia article on Yuri Khanon, where (4 out of 5) seem to be directly translated from Russian originals (without this being mentioned explicitly). For Wikiquote this is (also) not appropriate (in my opinion).

Now in this matter it doesn't help, that "Yuri does not give interviews." Any person should meet the Wikiquote:Quotability guidelines, and (in my perception) this means at least a few of his sayings should have been translated into English or American books, newspaper and/or other reliable sources. -- Mdd (talk) 12:41, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

• No, here the English original (including even Sokurov). Grove’s musical Dictionary generally not written in Russian, only transferred. This Oxford. This is the most authoritative world and English encyclopedia about music and musicians. Professor Lyudmila Kovnatskaya ([1]) — Chairman of the Russian section of the IMS ([2]). This is the highest authority in Russia. ten years she led the Russian section of the grove dictionary. There is a large article in the magazine "Music in the USSR" (№2-1990, pp/47-48), which was published in English. The article is called "The Theme of uninterrupted musical action". Professor Pak Noja he has dedicated an entire Chapter in his book about Russia. Yes, Yuri not English writer. But I did an article about the Russian composer of international renown. As a composer he meets the criteria of significance. Namesnik (talk) 14:32, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Dear colleague. You did not answer? You have no objections? Do you need additional article? I think Grove’s musical Dictionary much larger source than the newspaper New York Times. Namesnik (talk) 14:47, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Maybe I haven't made myself clear: The minimum requirement are some verifiable notable statements in English by the person, not about the person. Since this is not the case (apparently because he doesn't do interviews (and hasn't wrote anything which is already translated)) this is no material for the English Wikiquote. -- Mdd (talk) 16:18, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining. I'm so first and understood. Since deleted the article. But then You quoted from "New York Times" square, where about him, not he himself. That's why the confusion. How many publications need for a "gentlemanly minimum"? Sorry for the annoying questions. Namesnik (talk) 14:12, 19 June 2014 (UTC)