Talk:French proverbs

la vie est trop courte pour penser à deux fois

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The following quotes have been removed from the page as unsourced. They may be moved back once reliable sources are provided for the proposition that these are known French-language proverbs.

Wrong translations

I do not know if it is the sources that are wrong or if the one who wrote many of those proverbs added his own translation of them, but a large number of those are horribly wrong, sometimes even saying the opposite of what the original proverb says. I'll add here more proper translations to show what I mean, please tell me if I should just correct them, or if I need to actually find some sources who can actually translate French to English properly.

-À mauvais ouvrier point de bon outil.

   Translation: A bad craftsman blames his tools.
   Source: Strauss, Emmanuel (1998). Dictionary of European Proverbs. Routledge. p. 4. ISBN 0415160502.

Correct Translation: To a bad craftsman, no tools are ever good.

-À tort se lamente de la mer qui ne s'ennuie d'y retourner.

   Translation: He complains wrongfully at the sea that gets bored on it twice.
   English equivalent: He complains wrongfully at the sea that suffer shipwreck twice.
   Meaning: Don't do the same thing again and expect different results.
   Strauss, Emanuel (1994). Dictionary of European proverbs (Volume 2 ed.). Routledge. p. 898. ISBN 0415096243.

Correct Translation: Wrongfully he complains of the sea he who is not eager to go back to it. In this case, the meaning is also wrong due to the translation being wrong.

-Au bout du fossé, la culbute.

   Translation: Pride comes before fall.
   Strauss, Emmanuel (1994). Dictionary of European Proverbs, Volym 1. Routledge. p. 1148. ISBN 0415096243.

Correct Translation: At the end of the ditch, the fall.

-Au fruit on connaît l'arbre.

   Translation: The fruit is known by its tree.
   English equivalent: The apple does not fall far from the tree.
   Meaning: "Children observe daily and — in their behaviour — often follow the example of their parents."
   Source for meaning: Paczolay, Gyula (1997). European Proverbs in 55 languages. DeProverbio.com. p. 259. ISBN 1-875943-44-7.
   Strauss, Emanuel (1994). Dictionary of European proverbs (Volume 2 ed.). Routledge. p. 488. ISBN 0415096243.

Correct Translation: The tree is known by its fruits. Correct Meaning: Same as "À l'oeuvre, on reconnait l'artisan" (The craftsman by his work is known.)

And that's only for the As, ignoring a few smaller mistakes which do not alter the meaning of the translation and one which is there twice. What do more experimented members believe? Should I go ahead with changing those translations? (if so, I'll correct the rest too, I just didn't want to waste time if I need to find sources that understand archaic french enough to translate them into English CyberDraconian (talk) 07:12, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out. I would say, go ahead and correct the translations! ("It is better to be vaguely right than exactly wrong.") ~ DanielTom (talk) 10:27, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

One of Wikipedia's policies, which also counts for Wikiquote, is to be bold, so go ahead! I am using the book Concise Dictionary of European Proverbs, which does not provide a literal translation for non English proverbs, but merely a similar English equivalent proverb vastly varying in alikeness. Google Translate is used for translation because I do not understand French, and that software is often not entirely correct. Therefore you see these faulty translations. I mostly aim for finding a meaning provided by a published source because Wikipedia and also Wikiquote aims for no original research. However, there is no deadline so feel free to add unsourced meanings. Translations though, do not need to be sourced according to Wikiquote praxis.--Spannerjam (talk) 05:44, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

This is the actual Wikiquote praxis as explained at WQ:SOURCE: "Wikiquote editors should prefer a published translation by a reliable, professional translator to their own translation. (At some point, it is likely that only published translations will be permitted.)"

If you know that you don't know the language then it would behoove you to refrain from posting made up stuff. Competence is required. There is no deadline for completing an article, but there is no excuse for filling it with false information. ~ Ningauble (talk) 17:17, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

@Spannerjam: you should know Google Translate must be used with great skepticism even by people who understand both languages. I suggest you use it only to confirm/double check the translations as given in the books, to then add those. There is no need to add "literal translations" which are not literal at all. Sincere, DanielTom (talk) 18:22, 25 August 2013 (UTC) last edit: 09:17, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

@Ningauble and DanielTom Criticism duly noticed. I will henceforth try to avoid posting translations which likely are essentially wrong.

@CyberDraconian Just a clarification:Ningauble pointed out "Wikiquote editors should prefer a published translation by a reliable, professional translator to their own translation." But it is not required, so be bold and make changes you believe to be necessary! --Spannerjam (talk) 09:11, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Personally I'd rather translate by the equivalent expression (wikt:a bad workman always blames his tools) than a literal one (but we could put the both), because the figurative meaning is the main topic. JackPotte (talk) 13:35, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Merge proposal of Béarnese proverbs to here

With the single proverb of the Béarnese dialect it may be more appropriate to merge it here. -- User:Djm-leighpark_(a)^talk 19:07, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

• WithdrawnSupport: (proposer) - though open to alternative arguements. -- User:Djm-leighpark_(a)^talk 19:07, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

I have elected to withdraw this proposal due to concerns from the conversion at Talk:Béarnese proverbs making this a potentially non beneficial merge. No objection to anyone else re-raising it. -- Djm-leighpark_(a)^talk 12:33, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

N Not Done