User talk:Whatamidoing (WMF)

Hello, Whatamidoing (WMF), and welcome to English Wikiquote.

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Enjoy! ~ Ningauble (talk) 16:48, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

question

Hi Whatamidoing (WMF)

I see you, unlike many other wmf employees, have a talkpage here on wikiquote. I hope the rest of my post does not make you regret this (just kidding).

WMF employees are in the habit of posting long and indecipherable (to me at least) messages to our Village pump often, but most do not have a local page. Some examples:

• Wikiquote:Village_pump#Community_Wishlist_Survey_2021
• Wikiquote:Village_pump#Call_for_insights_on_ways_to_better_communicate_the_work_of_the_movement
• Wikiquote:Village_pump#Announcing_a_new_wiki_project!_Welcome,_Abstract_Wikipedia
• Wikiquote:Village_pump#Patrollers_needed_for_WMF_study

Seems to me that someone who really wants to communicate with their audience would have a wikiqutien presence, if only by maintaining a local talkpage. Your views? Ottawahitech (talk) 08:21, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello, @Ottawahitech. Those messages are sent via MassMessage. If a wiki doesn't want to get them (or wants to change the page they're posted to), then there is a link in a at the end of the message that you can edit to remove/change the page.

There are, depending upon how you count, somewhere between 500 and 1,000 wikis. It is not possible for any human to truly maintain a presence at all the wikis, but sometimes it is appropriate to contact all the wikis anyway.

Besides, most people don't create their own talk pages. I have one here only because Ningauble created it. My user talk page is a place for communities to reach me, not a place for me to advertise my existence to them. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:59, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the informative reply. I have some views on this topic, but hate to pick on you individually. Unfortunately I have no choice (if I try to explain this I may get into trouble). I would not be upset if you take a couple of weeks to reply at your leisure.

I understand that wmf employees cannot be expected to be everywhere at once. However, I believe that in order to be effective one needs to have some basic understanding of one's audience. I hate to pick on one individual employee, such as User: SGrabarczuk (WMF), one who does even have a page on our star project (see:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SGrabarczuk_(WMF) ), but who posted the most recent mass message at Wikiquote's villagepump. His (I see he is a man from his picture) Meta page tells me he is active on the Polish wikipedia, and that his knowledge of English is en-3. I don't know which wikis he is active on, and hope that his experience makes him a good Community Relations Specialist.

To me it feels like WMF employees make no effort to communicate with their provincial subjects. They stay aloof and do not mix in with those they "rule". I believe their work would be more effective if they tried to communicate with the community they are in charge of .

Just my $.02. Cheers 20:15, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Hey Ottawahitech! Thanks for your $0.2. Let's discuss these in an order:

1. You believe my last message was long and indecipherable? May I (within 2-3 weeks) prepare a few different samples in pairs and ask which of the two is better in your opinion?
2. Would have a wikiqutien presence, if only by maintaining a local talkpage - on some projects, creating one's own talk page, removing sections, or answering to others' comments on the same user talk page may be badly received or even prohibited :)
3. Regarding us staying aloof, it's your right to perceive like that, but I also believe it's not our intention to rule (or to "rule") anyone. We also do not believe we're in charge of anyone. To me, this feels like a classic misalignment of mutual positions and expectations.
4. Could you give more examples why it feels to you like we make no effort to communicate with you? What should change, what should be improved?

SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:32, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@SGrabarczuk (WMF): I really appreciate your taking the time to address my concerns in so much detail. Would you mind if we move this discussion to WQ village pump so that more wikiqutiens get involved? Also to be fair to whatamIdoing who may not appreciate their talkpage being hijacked? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 21:46, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Ottawahitech, do you think it's more important to have a non-global userpage, or to have a local user talk page? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:01, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@whatamIdoing, sorry I don't understand the question. What is a non-global userpage vs. a local user talk page? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 21:51, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

If you make a User: page on Meta-Wiki, it will be shown everywhere, unless you create a local user page to override it. For example, if you go to my user page at the German Wikipedia, it's not actually "at" the German Wikipedia. It's just my user page from Meta-Wiki, which gets automagically copied over to all the other wikis, unless I've manually created a local user page to override it. Do you object to this, and think that everyone should make hundreds of local copies? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 07:12, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Wow, I just saw your reply, and I have learned something new. I used to have a userpage at Meta, but it was deleted by an admin a long time ago. I did not realize that it was visible on all other wmf-wikis. I always assumed there was some wmf-magic involved in creating those Global pages on a local wikis. I'll have to reflect o your question and come back with an answer later. Much appreciated. Ottawahitech (talk) 01:00, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

@SGrabarczuk (WMF)

Just to let you know (apologies to waid for cluttering page) more than a week ago I tried to get your attention at:

• User talk:Tar Lócesilion#VP at WQ
• User talk:SGrabarczuk (WMF)#Village pump
• Wikiquote:Village pump#Talk to the Community Tech: The future of the Community Wishlist Survey. Cheers,Ottawahitech (talk) 17:04, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Can I designate my wikiquote user-page as my home wiki

I have been recently unblocked at META, a condition I view as temporary due to the current admin-power-structure there.

Is there a way I can have my wikiquote userpage display in all wikis where I do not have a userpage? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 16:42, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

No. The global userpage system always uses your Meta-Wiki page (even if you don't want that page displayed elsewhere).

You could put a note on your global userpage that says to look here, though. It's not unusual for editors to have a global userpage that basically says "Find me at <favorite wiki>." Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:59, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. Unfortunately this would not work for me because if I lose my Meta access again, I would not be able to change it. Ottawahitech (talk) 21:24, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

You're right. I assume that you could use the m:Edit Protected system to request that someone make the changes for you, but it would be a hassle. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 04:36, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Hmmm... Do you mean I could add this template to a page on Meta even though I am blocked there? Ottawahitech (talk) 18:46, 24 March 2021 (UTC) Not sure what you mean: I am currently blocked on Meta, but I am allowed to edit my UTP (User-Talk-Page). My UP is not protected but because I am blocked I cannot edit it. I am not sure how to use this template you suggested IF I decide I want to change my UP on meta. Am I explaining myself correctly? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 23:14, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@Ottawahitech, since you can edit your talk page at Meta-Wiki, I believe that you can use m:Template:Edit Protected to request a change to your user page there. That seems to be the process for requesting a change to a page you can't edit there. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:06, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

More on global UP / local UTP - deceased wikimedians

You may be aware of the problems created when a prolific contributor to several wmf-wikis passes away?

• Not all wikis have a Template:deceased
• A deceased wikimedian who did not create a user page on the wikis they participated in can still have the deceased message display automatically on their UP (user-page) if it is displayed at Meta, but not on their UTP.
• In the case of User:Pi zero, who passed away sadly on February 26, 2021, after creating a UP on wiktionary, so initially there was no Deceased message displaying for quite a while, but now one appeared (amongst the garble), but there is nothing on his UTP indicating he is no longer with us.
• Wikinews where John Shutt was the only Bureaucrat to this day does not display a deceased message either on his TP or his UTP
• The contributions page on all wikis display

  This account is globally locked. See global account details for more information

  .

Since I am not allowed to participate in Meta, I wonder if you think this is a topic that concerns the WMF? Ottawahitech (talk) 21:52, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

@Ottawahitech, I believe that, these days, situations involving the accounts of deceased editors are largely handled by the Stewards. It used to be each local community separately. I don't think that the WMF has a role (for non-staff accounts). I say that as a volunteer who has written the obituaries for two editors from the English Wikipedia. I think it's best when losses are handled by your friends. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 03:23, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

As a side-note: you seem to be suggesting that the only contributors who deserve an wmf-obituary are those whose real life identity is acknowlegded onwiki. What about those anonymous (either IPs or those using pseudonames) contributors who, I believe(anecdotal), have contributed most of the content?

Back to Pi zero/John Shutts: you are saying that:

situations involving the accounts of deceased editors are largely handled by the Stewards

. However I don't see this in the stewards' job description and doubt most Stewards are aware of this responsibility. Ottawahitech (talk) 16:56, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

m:Global locks can only be issued by the Stewards, and the last item in the list of reasons why they will g-lock accounts is that the user has died.

I don't suggest that only people who disclose their real-life identities should qualify for an obituary on wiki. I think that every community should do what it thinks is best. Many of us are known by our "real wiki names" rather than our meatspace names. I can think of several editors who never posts their "real world" names on wiki, but I think we have enough contacts that we could figure out whether they've died or just stopped editing, and I would consider them eligible for an obituary at the English Wikipedia (hopefully not for many years, though).

(Also, we should probably acknowledge that we're talking about this subject as if people can only have one "real" name, which is not an assumption shared by many cultures.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 01:27, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

redirects to redirects

Hi Whatamidoing (WMF),

I remember posting this question a while ago somewhere on wmf-land, and I remember you answered my question, but I cannot for the life of me remember where the question and answers are (I know its in my notifications, but in which wiki?). I was thinking of this after just creating a redirect bill which redirects to legislation which currently redirects to law. If I redirect bill to [Law]] and skip legislation, and someone comes along and creates legislation, bill will be redirecting to the wrong article. Am I making sense? Ottawahitech (talk) 00:40, 22 December 2020 (UTC) BTW it would be nice if we had a help-desk here like the one on enwiki, but that's a whole new ballgame. Cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 00:43, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that's how it works. It's the double-redirect problem. The redirect gives you a single "jump" to a page. It won't redirect through a chain. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 04:21, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Oops I guess I did not respond ;)

I still don't understand why a redirect to redirect should not be created. Wouldn't it be useful to keep a history of redirects to redirects as in the example I gave above? (" a redirect bill which redirects to legislation which currently redirects to law. If I redirect bill to Law and skip legislation, and someone comes along and creates legislation, bill will be redirecting to the wrong article")

(no way to leave an edit summary here) Ottawahitech (talk) 21:49, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

If you go more than one step in the chain, you can end up in a loop: bill redirects to legislation, which redirects to law, which redirects back to bill, which still sends you on to legislation, which still redirects to law. See also w:en:Infinite loop. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:58, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

Reply button question

Hi Whatamidoing (WMF),

I was trying to add a comment at the very end of Wikiquote_talk:SheSaid#Tracking_2 ,but I cannot see a reply button which exists for other sections. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:52, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Just wondering if it is because the section was unsigned? Ottawahitech (talk) 15:00, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

The Reply tool has to be able to recognize a signature, so it knows where to place the [reply] button. At most wikis, Template:Unsigned needs tweaking to make that possible. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:00, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

New Reply-tool problem report

Hi Whatamidoing (WMF)

If I remember correctly you like to get feedback on the new Reply-tool. If so,I have a report that may interest you. It involves using Reply to a post on this thread at AN on April 28.

I first tried my edit, and was responding to the message right before mine by User:Antandrus who had published their edit on April 26. There were no other messages visible between my message and the one published by Antandrus. When I I tried to publish my relatively short edit using Reply I was surprised to be informed that (sorry I wish I had saved the exact text) someone had published an edit while I was composing mine. In other words I had my first edit conflict using this new tool.

I was tired and did not think much of it & just c&p-ed my text & clicked reply again, then published. My second post came back with a typo (which I corrected with the 3rd edit) that I am quite sure was not in the original. And yes, there was message I had not seen before, but according to the contributions history it was posted on April 27, a day earlier than my own.

Are you aware of any glitches happening to others, or is this only happening to me? I hope I am making sense? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 05:20, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

again a problem to report with the use of the reply button: I am trying to post a reply on User:Vermont talkpage but cannot paste a response. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:24, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

@Ottawahitech, I wanted to come back to this. Pasting problems often mean that you have picked up some sort of "unwanted" comment (like a photo – you can't paste those into a wiki, obviously). I think this is only a problem in the visual mode. But I've got another report from an editor who says that he gets problems with the shift key and with pasting that make the cursor move to the top of the editing box. Are you seeing anything like that? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:53, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

I have been using the Reply-to a lot since I last visited here. So far I have been quite happy with it. It now allows me to add an edit summery which is something I try to always include in my edits.

However, today I am having a brand new problem trying to use Reply-to the talk page of @User:Saroj Uprety. This page shows [Subscribe] beside every topic AND these are the only clickable spots on the page (I have clicked one to see how it works)

abort report - problem seems to have been resolved? Ottawahitech (talk) 12:48, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Just to clarify: I still see [subscribe] (only on the page in question) displayed on the right side of every topic, but all other clickable links are back to being clickable. The [subscribe] link I clicked earlier has toggled into an [unsubscribe]. I hope I am making sense? Cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 02:24, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

What a strange situation. I wonder if the page didn't finish loading fully the first time. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 02:28, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Can reply-tool be modified to allow WQ-editors to add Quotes?

Hi Whatamidoing (WMF),

Can the software used for the reply-tool be modified to allow WQ-editors to add Quotes in WQ-mainspace? I know this will take a huge effort at WQ to cleanup Quote sections, but in the long run it will help Users such as myself tremendously to add new quotes in the right chronological order. Am I making sense?

Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 21:37, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

New problem with the reply-tool

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T330802

Hi Whatamidoing (WMF), I have come across an issue that I cannot figure out, I hope it is me not seeing something really obvious and not a bug in the software.

Let me try and explain it the best I can: on 15:48, 24 February 2023 I posted a numbered list at numbered list #1 on the Village pump in the thread Global ban for for risto hot sir?. I see no problem with the list (running 1-8 items) when I look at that text version. On 18:14, 25 February 2023 User:Vermont responded to my post but numbered list #2 looks broken (running 1, 1-7 items). If one edits this version, it is easy to see that there is a blank line between the first and second items on the numbered list. What I do not understand is how did this blank line get inserted, and where did the superfluous </blockquote> tag come from?

I have no idea if I am making sense, please let me know if I am not. Ottawahitech (talk) 22:27, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

I can see two possibilities:

The first is that there are deleted/oversighted edits in there that you and I can't see, and therefore we need to ask someone like @Vermont whether anything is hidden in the page history.

The second, and IMO more likely, is that there's a strange thing going on with the page parsing. This could be caused by a template elsewhere on the page, which resulted in an unclosed blockquote tag (which Parsoid tried to automatically resolve for us by adding a closing blockquote tag). I'll file a Phab task to ask one of the devs to look into it. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:19, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the tracked#. BTW I did not get notified even though I am subscribed. Ottawahitech (talk) 17:23, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Hi

Hi @Whatamidoing (WMF):

I have noticed some improvements in the reply-to tool -- good work!

When I use this tool I sometimes forget to add an edit summary. I wonder if the developers can think of a way to remind those who use the tool to explain their post in the edit summary. I personally use edit summaries as an index. Ottawahitech (talk) 19:29, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Since you are no longer employed by the Wikimedia foundation it would be nice if someone could mention on your page who is your replacement. It would save us, unpaid volunteers, (unproductive) time trying to chase down this information. Thanks in advance. Ottawahitech (talk) 11:43, 3 November 2023 (UTC)