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cross-wiki issues at Hudhaifah Goga

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Latest comment: 10 days ago10 comments4 people in discussion

The notability of this subject is doubted at w:simple:Wikipedia:Requests for deletion/Requests/2025/Hudhaifah Goga. Please note that w:Hudhaifah Goga is deleted per CSD G11, and the author is listed at w:Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sumypat. Please also see w:simple:Special:Diff/10109128 for the author's behavior. Is it OK to let the page remain and the author stay in the ENWQ community? MathXplore (talk) 12:39, 2 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Tagged it with {{Prod}}. Maybe that will resolve it. Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:23, 2 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Koavf: Thank you for the feedback, are you glad about this edit (special:diff/3677868)? MathXplore (talk) 04:22, 3 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
I am certainly not. I support the page being deleted, but since the {{prod}} was removed, I'll go thru the proper nomination process, where it will certainly be deleted. Annoying. Thanks as always. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:50, 3 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
Wikiquote:Votes for deletion/Hudhaifah Goga —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 17:01, 3 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
The prod asked me to improve the article and remove it why you getting annoyed when thats what the prod asked me to do it clearly stated improve the article and remove the thing before the time elapses so that's what I did what's the problem huh what's the problem explain your frustration when the it was ckearly explained what to do and I followed instructions G786330 (talk) 03:37, 6 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
after one whole century maybe when Hudhaifah Goga did nothing yourl still drooling over his past when he ws6a youngster with no accolades just a kids encyclopedia times have changed people get notable and do big things as they grow older you dwelling on the past here from some sumypat and all that which was maybe before the internet came out Kings do things when they come into power but yourl dead against us because some bullshit of trying to get an article from young Hudhaifah Goga so there's nothing I can do anyways lucky we have a website now www.unhre.org to keep our things saved forever and kids encyclopedia has most of it anyways wekipedia can't change even after ruling the world so only horn nobility is allowed here maybe even though his majesty King Hudhaifah Goga is born nobility but his not born Notability according to yourl so yourl will never get the ruler of the world on wekipedia ever that's how perthetic this is G786330 (talk) 03:48, 6 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
see I put it on my website anyway https://unhre.org/wikiquotes-of-hudhaifah-goga/ the comments must just know that yourl are fighting us from some other religion that's what we know but we'll catch yourl one day G786330 (talk) 04:20, 6 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Koavf @MathXploreI've blocked this one for clearly lack competence to build in this project. This one tried to spamming their site of urhre.org and just from the comment above, "Hudhaifah Goga is born nobility but his not born Notability according to yourl so yourl will never get the ruler of the world on wekipedia ever that's how perthetic this is", I believed this one is clearly not ready to build. -‎Lemonaka‎ 20:12, 8 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
Legit block. Thanks, Lemonaka. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:59, 8 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Personal attack

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Latest comment: 6 days ago9 comments4 people in discussion

I don't like being called a white supremacist motivated by racism. See Village pump#Massive pattern of racist motivated edits to United States. Ficaia (talk) 01:14, 7 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

It looks like we have multiple threads on the same topic, so let's please keep conversation at the above thread, where multiple admins have already chimed in. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:01, 8 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
I think the repeated PA being directed at Ficaia deserves a clear admin response. The massive walls of text being created by Peter1c have provided an excellent smoke cloud preventing any focused discussion of his/her repeated breaches of important policies that we need to defend. But I am baffled what we could/should do. HouseOfChange (talk) 14:15, 12 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

HouseOfChange The massive walls of text you refer to and describe incorrectly as a smoke cloud in fact provide the evidence that changes to United States exhibit a clear racist pattern that is identifiable using methods for identifying such patterns that I have learned at Penn State and University of Chicago. I DID NOT in fact accuse Ficaia of being racist in the original post on this topic. I merely described all the evidence pointing toward a racist pattern in the edits. Then Ficaia denied this in one sentence, providing no argument or evidence, continuing their edit warring pattern while refusing to contribute more than one liner denials to the discussion to resolve the issue, and escalated the conflict by suggesting I should be banned. The continued edit warring after I had officially raised the topic on Village Pump is contrary to WQ policy and made me feel personally attacked. If you want, I can go into more detail on the reasons I feel personally attacked as well, but that seems to be beside the point. I suggest we focus on adjudicating the original issue of mass deletions and politically motivated edits. Then we can go into the feelings aroused, which I agree should be discussed. Without adjudicating the original issue, the question of who feels hurt will be hard to discuss intelligently. I agree with Justin that it probably makes sense to continue the discussion at the Village Pump, where I have presented relevant evidence and discussed the gaslighting tactics that are being used to accuse the person pointing out the problem of being the problem. Switching venues seems like yet another gaslighting tactic to keep eyes off original evidence for the original problem. This is classic gaslighting playbook: first provoke a reaction with edit warring, escalation of conflict and other violations of policy, then say "look at how they reacted" to make the person raising the problem into the problem and distract from the original issue. Peter1c (talk) 15:17, 12 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

So Peter1c denies having done anything wrong aside from maybe some "feelings". My "feeling" is that WQ policies are important. HouseOfChange (talk) 17:38, 12 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
Hello User:HouseOfChange. I would like to respond to your concerns and address them, but these one liner accusations fail to provide the necessary detail I need to respond adequately. You just keep escalating to "Peter should be banned" without letting Peter know how he can improve. I apologize that my criticism of these edits came across as personal animosity rather than a critical review. That was not my intention. My original review was done according to the academic standards I have learned at Penn State and University of Chicago. Many papers written in this style have received As. I was not intending to make any imputations about the person. I had no animosity in advance of seeing this edit. I was only describing the pattern of edits. I apologize if there was any misunderstanding on this.

Edits are going to be reviewed by other editors. That is part of the social universe of Wikipedia. Ficaia seems to be in denial of this basic fact and imagines entire articles can be deleted with no discussion? His deletions got a bad review, and now I stand accused of personal animosity? There was no animosity. I did my best to do an objective review. My opinion as an experienced wikiquote editor and adult education researcher is that this demolition and reconstruction of the United States article is at best a failure, and at worst an attempt to sabotage this adult education community. More than 97% of the original article was deleted in the first attack.

I have already explained the situation. I began by describing and documenting in detail a clear pattern of racist motivated edits. This kind of analysis is what I am trained to do. I documented the situation clearly. Ficaia's immediate reply to my detailed evidence was a one liner, accusing me of calling him a racist (unfounded accusation) and stating that therefore he would not reply (refusal to discuss). Then, apparently imagining a one liner was a sufficient contribution to the discussion, Ficaia reverted my edit.

In one of the few replies of more than one line, Ficaia states, "I haven't removed anything because of what it was about; I've removed it because it was unquotable/hasn't been quoted anywhere before." I did a simple google check, and I found many of the removed quotes are in fact widely quoted. So now I think there appears to be a serious problem of contempt for the Wikiquote editor community demonstrated by lying to us about editing methods. Perhaps this is a misunderstanding on my part. I have no intention to escalate this further. I would like to reach a resolution.

I have tried to document my issues with the revision carefully, but it seems all my detailed efforts are in vain because to you this is a "wall of text" that you refuse to engage with. Isn't this the definition of refusal to discuss?

I have de-escalated at every opportunity. I have reduced my charges from "racist motivated edits" to "politically motivated edits" even though I have sufficient evidence to prove the original charge. But the countersuit against me continues to escalate, showing that it is intended only to intimidate editors from standing up to demolition of articles we have built up over decades.

Ficaia's one-liner accusation has not provided any arguments or evidence that I have personal animosity. I do not have any personal animosity. I am very eager to reach a mutually agreeable settlement on this matter. I have de-escalated this conflict at every opportunity. Frankly I am overflowing with good faith and Ficaia is taking unfair advantage of that.

I happen to be the reviewer bringing a problematic pattern of mass deletions observed by other editors to the attention of the community. My impression is that Ficaia seems to be counterattacking me to intimidate editors from reviewing contributions. I have de-escalated at every opportunity.

I respect Justin's suggestion to move the discussion to the original thread, but I also feel that these kind of false accusations call for some response. These unprovoked escalations are intended to silence critical discussion and should not go unchallenged.

I encourage Ficaia and HouseOfChange to please join the discussion of how this issue should be settled rather than trying to silence critics. The solution proposed by multiple editors is to merge the new contributions into the original article and then proceed from there. We can discuss what needs to be deleted quote by quote.

Here are some relevant Wikipedia policies to keep in mind to avoid future disputes:
  • Be helpful: explain your changes. When you edit an article, the more radical or controversial the change, the greater the need to explain it. Be sure to leave a comment about why you made the change. Try to use an appropriate edit summary. For larger or more significant changes, the edit summary may not give you enough space to fully explain the edit; in this case, you may leave a note on the article's talk page as well. Remember too that notes on the talk page are more visible, make misunderstandings less likely, and encourage discussion rather than edit warring.
  • Be cautious about making a major change to an article. Prevent edit warring by discussing such edits first on the article's talk page. An edit that one editor thinks is minor or clearly warranted might be seen as major or unwarranted by others. If you choose to be bold, provide the rationale for any change in the edit summary or on the article talk page. If your change is lengthy or complex, consider first creating a new draft on a subpage of your own user page and start a discussion that includes a link to it on the article's talk page.
I see Ficaia created a draft as a subheading of Talk:United States on November 18, 2024 so clearly some effort was made to comply with this policy. I'm not sure why this approach was not continued.
  • Do not be upset if your bold edits get reverted.
P.S. Yes, as you said, my feelings were wrong. I became angry when I saw the mass deletion. I became angry with edit warring and refusal to discuss. My anger is wrong and it should not have happened. I apologize for that. I hope everyone will see my words of anger are more than outweighed by efforts toward reconciliation. These mass deletions are pushing the limits of good faith by covertly deleting content this community has built up over decades. The conflict is only exacerbated by counterattacking the messenger and escalating the conflict rather than engaging in good faith discussion. I have repeated so many times, I never intended to make any ontological attacks by designating anyone as a racist. I am reviewing edits, doing my duty as a member of the Wikiquote community as I perceive it. My intention is that Wikiquote editors can be an adult learning community and learn from one another in good faith. I perceive mass deletions with no notice as sabotage of this community. These actions need to be discussed. I don't think the intimidation tactics used to silence discussion should go unchallenged.
Peter1c (talk) 20:50, 12 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
I am not asking for you to be banned or blocked, but I am trying to get your attention to the issue of your own behavior. What I want is for you to separate YOUR issue of your being very angry about changes to United States, where you have a legitimate right to your opinion (as does any editor, including of course Ficaia) from the POLICY issue where your behavior is repeatedly off-the-charts uncivil and uncollegial. It violates AGF to proclaim that another editor was trying to be deceptive or tricky, or was motivated by fascism or racism. Ficaia has been making similar edits to articles for quite a while, with no deception involved. The background issue is that the LibraryClerk sockfarm spent literally years adding unquotable POV-pushing quotes to many articles. My issue is not so much with LC's particular POV as with the problem that we are a storehouse of quotable quotes, not a warehouse of lengthy accusations. Removing a paragraph of editorializing from a WQ article doesn't vanish it from the universe or murder the voice of its author. HouseOfChange (talk) 00:39, 13 March 2025 (UTC)Reply



Thanks for your reply on this, HouseOfChange. I completely agree with you that I should be able to make a criticism without degenerating into language that appears as off the charts uncivil and uncollegial insults. I think I was doing OK until Ficaia responded to my wall of text with a one liner and reverted my edit. This made me feel like he was in utter contempt of wikiquote policies, and I sunk down to a similar level. But you are right, that should not have happened.

Other editors have also indicated to me that they are finding cases where they perceive this user's edits as problematic. Perhaps they wouldn't use the word "tricky". I will allow them to speak for themselves. Honestly, it is hard for me to not perceive an editor who says they removed the quotes based on one criterion (not widely quoted), when in fact that is not the criterion actually used, as at least a little tricky. The AGF document also states, "Pointing out that someone has contradicted an earlier statement is in itself a statement of fact, and is not an assumption of any kind. Contradictions can also be unintentional." So the correct assumption would be that the contradiction is unintentional.

I am not up to speed on the LibraryClerk sockfarm, so maybe that is an important factor that I am missing. How can I learn more about this?

I understand AGF policy and in fact I have argued that mass deletions are not a manifestation of good faith. This is an independent question from the question of my assumption of good faith, but still I feel it is relevant.

You mentioned that you are not trying to get me banned or blocked, but trying to draw attention to my behavior. I appreciate the feedback, and I can see the defects in my behavior. I go into more detail on this in the wall of text below in reference to the NPA policy. The problem is, Ficaia has repeatedly demanded that I be blocked. How does this escalation represent an assumption of good faith? It seems your application of the AGF policy to this case may be somewhat one-sided?

Regarding the question of "feelings" vs. Wikipedia/Wikiquote policy: I have reviewed w:Wikipedia:No personal attacks. My impression is that the purpose of this policy document is to teach me how to avoid making other editors feel personally attacked. It seems like feelings are relevant in this case, and Ficaia does feel personally attacked, so clearly I have failed in achieving the spirit of the article. I would like to fix this if there is any way to do so. Regarding violation of specific tenets of this article, here is my self-assessment:

  • The policy states, "Accusations require serious evidence, usually in the form of diffs and links."
I claim I have provided serious evidence but you have designated the evidence as an insurmountable mountain of text and refused to read it.
  • The policy states, "Editors are allowed to have personal political POV, as long as it does not negatively affect their editing and discussions."
I claim that in the case I objected to, the editor's personal political POV did negatively affect their editing and discussions.
  • The policy teaches me to avoid using the word "you" as much as possible to avoid making another editor feel personally attacked by a negative review of their edits.
I reviewed my walls of text, and I see there are cases where my tone can be improved by this method.
  • The policy states, "Through reasoned debate, contributors can synthesize [conflicting] views into a single article, and this creates a better, more neutral article for everyone."
This corresponds to my proposed settlement.
  • In terms of responding to feelings of being attacked, the policy states: "Sometimes personal attacks are not meant as attacks at all, and during heated and stressful debates, editors tend to overreact. Additionally, because Wikipedia discussions are in a text-only medium, nuances and emotions are often conveyed poorly, which can easily lead to misunderstanding. ... While personal attacks are not excused because of these factors, editors are encouraged to disregard angry and ill-mannered postings of others, if it is reasonable to do so, and to continue to focus their efforts on improving and developing the encyclopedia.
I claim it is reasonable to disregard my ill-mannered words for at least the following reasons:
  1. I have repeatedly emphasized that my remarks are intended to describe edits, and are not intended to describe the editor.
  2. I have retracted my words with subsequent edits where they are unfounded.
  3. I have meliorated my wording when this does not detract from accurate portrayal of the conclusions of my analysis.
  4. I have apologized and repeatedly reiterated that I never intended my words to come across as a personal attack.
  5. I have repeatedly emphasized my good faith settlement offer to work together to create an article that can be satisfactory to Ficaia and other editors in the community.
  • The policy states, "If possible, try to find a compromise or common ground regarding the underlying issues of content, rather than argue about behavior."
This corresponds to my proposed settlement.
  • The policy states, "Other resolutions are preferable to blocking for less-severe situations when it is unclear if the conduct severely disrupts the project. Recurring attacks are proportionally more likely to be considered disruptive. Blocking for personal attacks should only be done for prevention, not punishment: a block may be warranted if it seems likely that the user will continue using personal attacks."
I argue that it is unlikely that I will continue personal attacks, for at least the following reasons
  1. I have backpedaled, retracted, apologized, reworded, de-escalated and made repeated attempts at reconciliation.
  2. I have reviewed the relevant policy documents and demonstrated an intent to improve my compliance.

This policy document also clearly indicates that going directly from noting an offense to suggesting a block is not the correct procedure. In fact, I argue that threatening to block an editor without due process constitutes a kind of intimidation. The policy indicates that the next step in a case of perceived personal attack is w:Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. I perceive repeated statements like "You should be blocked" as a clear attempt at intimidation. These statements are clearly invoking the threat of blocking as a punishment rather than a preventative measure, and are therefore contrary to the clearly stated policy of Wikipedia/Wikiquote. I might have perceived these threats as recurring personal attacks, but I have chosen to disregard these attempts at intimidation. In cases like this where both sides feel personally attacked, the policy clearly indicates that wasting time adjudicating who is the bigger jerk is a sorry distraction from resolving the original editorial issue.

Peter1c (talk) 01:14, 13 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your intention to move forward with a focus on contents not contributors. Here is a link to early days of our discovery of the many-years-many-socks work to fill WQ with long unquotable POV-pushing stuff: Wikiquote:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive/037#Clean up on Aisle Five. HouseOfChange (talk) 01:47, 13 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Disruptive SPA creating massive cleanup job to support spam article

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Latest comment: 6 days ago4 comments3 people in discussion

Calling your attention to the entire edit history] of Biuc12, who came here to create three articles (Alexander Lukison, Democrats Party, and Leader of the Democrats Party) and also created nonsense templates (Template:Infobox officeholder2????) to support them, a massive cleanup job and waste of admin time. I propose instead blocking that editor and using TNT on his spam creations. But I am the newest admin so maybe others have a better idea? HouseOfChange (talk) 13:46, 12 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Fully agree - I've warned him already regarding the removal of vfd tags and I agree that nothing in this user's edit history seems to be constructive. I would support a block. ~ UDScott (talk) 14:53, 12 March 2025 (UTC)Reply
@HouseOfChange@UDScott i have done nothing wrong Biuc12 (talk) 15:32, 12 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

I have blocked Biuc12 but could somebody more tech savvy than I am take a look at his doppelganger IP helper's high-tech creations? What is Module:Detect_singular? These new accounts are not novice editors. Also a very similar IP was recently blocked for using very similar elaborate methods to promote a different non-notbable politician Alexander Bickerton. HouseOfChange (talk) 01:01, 13 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Protection request

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Latest comment: 3 days ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hello, it might be better to protect All Dogs Go to Heaven 2 as it seems to be a huge target for vandalism. Jianhui67 (talk) 13:58, 15 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

@Jianhui67 Done -‎Lemonaka‎ 19:23, 15 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

Some more evidence about the page Wikiquote:Votes_for_deletion/Sam_Pitroda

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Latest comment: 3 days ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hi, I got some email from one of the user in this case, yet again. I've forwarded all the emails to the mailing-list for reviewing and making decisions. -‎Lemonaka‎ 19:22, 15 March 2025 (UTC)Reply

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